Status
Available
Collection
Publication
New York : W. W. Norton & Company, 2015. First ed.
Description
Mary Norris has spent more than three decades in The New Yorker's copy department, maintaining its celebrated high standards. Now she brings her vast experience, good cheer, and finely sharpened pencils to help the rest of us in a boisterous language book as full of life as it is of practical advice. Between You & Me features Norris's laugh-out-loud descriptions of some of the most common and vexing problems in spelling, punctuation, and usage comma faults, danglers, 'who' vs. 'whom, ' 'that' vs. 'which, ' compound words, gender-neutral language and her clear explanations of how to handle them. Down-to-earth and always open-minded, she draws on examples from Charles Dickens, Emily Dickinson, Henry James, and the Lord's Prayer, as well as from The Honeymooners, The Simpsons, David Foster Wallace, and Gillian Flynn. She takes us to see a copy of Noah Webster's groundbreaking Blue-Back Speller, on a quest to find out who put the hyphen in Moby-Dick, on a pilgrimage to the world's only pencil-sharpener museum, and inside the hallowed halls of The New Yorker and her work with such celebrated writers as Pauline Kael, Philip Roth, and George Saunders. Readers and writers will find in Norris neither a scold nor a softie but a new friend in love with language and alive to the glories of its use in America, even in the age of autocorrect and spell-check. As Norris writes, 'The dictionary is a wonderful thing, but you can't let it push you around.' "--Jacket.… (more)
User reviews
LibraryThing member lauralkeet
It was difficult to even begin writing this review; I'm surprisingly anxious about possible grammar errors. However, I figure if you just spotted my on-target use of the semicolon, I have you on my side already. Oh yeah, and maybe that hyphen, too. And that comma just now. I could go on ... ooh
Just a few days in the company of Mary Norris, a former copy editor for The New Yorker magazine, has made me more aware of grammar and punctuation. Not in a way that makes me feel superior, thank goodness, but in a way that increases my appreciation of effective use of language (and yes, I did just look up the difference between appreciation of and appreciation for -- in this case, it's "of"). Norris has a depth of knowledge that I could never hope to achieve, but in the space of 200 pages she enriched my understanding of common grammatical concepts (and errors), and shed entirely new light on certain forms of punctuation. Her writing style is breezy and fun: discussing the use of "who" vs. "whom," and whether it really matters, she wrote, "Whom may be on the way out, but so is Venice, and we still like to go there." And a few pages later, she served up a handy rule of thumb:
Here's the takeaway: "who" does not change to "whom" just because it is in the middle of a sentence. The choice of "who" or "whom" is governed not by its role as the object of the sentence or the object of a preposition but by its role in the group of words that has been plugged into that position. ... "who" and "whom" are standing in for a pronoun: "who" stands in for "he, she, they, I, we"; "whom" stands in for "him, her, them, me, us."
In other chapters, Norris discusses commas, hyphens, apostrophes and even profanity. Towards the end of the book she takes a detour into the land of stationery and office supplies, because let's face it, what language lover doesn't also like that stuff? The book is also infused with stories about her assignments and her colleagues at The New Yorker, including an epilogue that wraps things up in a satisfying way and adds a personal touch that elevates this book above a grammar and style guide.
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look, an ellipsis!Just a few days in the company of Mary Norris, a former copy editor for The New Yorker magazine, has made me more aware of grammar and punctuation. Not in a way that makes me feel superior, thank goodness, but in a way that increases my appreciation of effective use of language (and yes, I did just look up the difference between appreciation of and appreciation for -- in this case, it's "of"). Norris has a depth of knowledge that I could never hope to achieve, but in the space of 200 pages she enriched my understanding of common grammatical concepts (and errors), and shed entirely new light on certain forms of punctuation. Her writing style is breezy and fun: discussing the use of "who" vs. "whom," and whether it really matters, she wrote, "Whom may be on the way out, but so is Venice, and we still like to go there." And a few pages later, she served up a handy rule of thumb:
Here's the takeaway: "who" does not change to "whom" just because it is in the middle of a sentence. The choice of "who" or "whom" is governed not by its role as the object of the sentence or the object of a preposition but by its role in the group of words that has been plugged into that position. ... "who" and "whom" are standing in for a pronoun: "who" stands in for "he, she, they, I, we"; "whom" stands in for "him, her, them, me, us."
In other chapters, Norris discusses commas, hyphens, apostrophes and even profanity. Towards the end of the book she takes a detour into the land of stationery and office supplies, because let's face it, what language lover doesn't also like that stuff? The book is also infused with stories about her assignments and her colleagues at The New Yorker, including an epilogue that wraps things up in a satisfying way and adds a personal touch that elevates this book above a grammar and style guide.
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LibraryThing member john.cooper
The haters hate this book so much that I feel compelled to warn those of you who may be the type to walk into a movie, for example, without ever having read a review or considered the intended audience: apparently such people exist. You must be interested in English usage to enjoy this book. You
This book is full of lively discussions about issues such as when a comma should appear between two adjectives that modify the same noun and whether the English language could benefit from the adoption of an epicene pronoun. I think Norris does a wonderful job of making these discussions chatty, witty, and fun, but then I'm an editor, and I take to this kind of stuff like Nabokov took to butterflies. Anyway, she also tells lots of stories about the interesting people who have worked for or written for the New Yorker. And this isn't a usage guide. It's basically shop talk from someone's who's one of the best at what she does. I concede her mastery of her subject, but I still want to argue with her sometimes, and that's part of the fun. (A book that this is sometimes compared to, "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves," isn't fun at all, because the author isn't an expert—she's just an opinionated layperson on a rant. I want to shake her instead of argue with her.)
I'm going to read this book again, slowly, using a pen to mark issues, and skipping to the back more frequently to read the endnotes. Then I'm going to write Mary Norris a letter explaining that the archaic long 's' is not an "f." I'm not sure she doesn't know that, but she writes as if she doesn't. It bugs me. That's the kind of person I am, and that's why I love this book so much.
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should have read the New Yorker magazine at least once or twice without having broken out in hives. You probably shouldn't be the kind of person who thinks that "elitism" is a constant affront to you. Is the author elitist? Maybe. I don't know. She has standards. It's her job to have them and to enforce them. I don't think she mentions Dan Brown or Danielle Steele in her book, but if you think those authors are good writers, you might think that Mary Norris is an awful elitist. I guess I am one too. This book is full of lively discussions about issues such as when a comma should appear between two adjectives that modify the same noun and whether the English language could benefit from the adoption of an epicene pronoun. I think Norris does a wonderful job of making these discussions chatty, witty, and fun, but then I'm an editor, and I take to this kind of stuff like Nabokov took to butterflies. Anyway, she also tells lots of stories about the interesting people who have worked for or written for the New Yorker. And this isn't a usage guide. It's basically shop talk from someone's who's one of the best at what she does. I concede her mastery of her subject, but I still want to argue with her sometimes, and that's part of the fun. (A book that this is sometimes compared to, "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves," isn't fun at all, because the author isn't an expert—she's just an opinionated layperson on a rant. I want to shake her instead of argue with her.)
I'm going to read this book again, slowly, using a pen to mark issues, and skipping to the back more frequently to read the endnotes. Then I'm going to write Mary Norris a letter explaining that the archaic long 's' is not an "f." I'm not sure she doesn't know that, but she writes as if she doesn't. It bugs me. That's the kind of person I am, and that's why I love this book so much.
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LibraryThing member TadAD
Ms. Norris spent a long time as a copy writer for The New Yorker. Here she shares some of her opinions on grammar and punctuation as well as anecdotes about authors with whom she worked. It’s a slim book and would have been better if it were several times its actual length. Still, what is there
It was interesting to see how copy editors, even those working together on the same, stringent magazine, do not always agree on what the rules should be. It was fun to watch how they would struggle to discard their rules in order to protect the voice of a talented author…and even more fun to watch them try to guide an author who thought himself talented when he was only slightly illiterate.
Only three stars, partially because it’s so short but mainly because this isn’t a book that will appeal to everyone or, perhaps, even most people. However, if you do like this type of book, it’s definitely worth a read.
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is fun to read if you like this sort of thing (I do). It was interesting to see how copy editors, even those working together on the same, stringent magazine, do not always agree on what the rules should be. It was fun to watch how they would struggle to discard their rules in order to protect the voice of a talented author…and even more fun to watch them try to guide an author who thought himself talented when he was only slightly illiterate.
Only three stars, partially because it’s so short but mainly because this isn’t a book that will appeal to everyone or, perhaps, even most people. However, if you do like this type of book, it’s definitely worth a read.
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LibraryThing member debnance
I can’t decide if Mary Norris has the best job in the world or the worst job in the world. What would it be like to spend your life (more than thirty years of it) working in the copy room of The New Yorker, agonizing over whether to hyphenate a word or add a comma? Part of the fun is the who;
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Norris isn’t checking spelling and firming up sloppy writing for seventh-graders, after all, but for the likes of some of our world’s greatest writers. Part of the fun is also the puzzling through the sometimes contradictory rules, and reflecting on The New Yorker’s stylish grammar choices amid the contradictions (always doubling the final consonant before adding a suffix, for example...interesting). Show Less
LibraryThing member Writermala
I saw the title of this book and I was hooked - ya-ay, she said "Between you and Me," I not "Between and I!" That was just the beginning.My love affair with Mary Norris's book continued as I read along. You don't have to be a Grammar maniac like me to appreciate this book. It is illuminating yet
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funny. Also, there is so much information - like the Pencil Sharpener Museum for example. I may be exaggerating a little if I say it reads like a thriller but I did read it in one sitting! Show Less
LibraryThing member littlel
Entertaining, fascinating and thought provoking.
LibraryThing member littlel
Entertaining, fascinating and thought provoking.
LibraryThing member rivercityreading
For over three decades, Mary Norris has wielded her pencil as a “Comma Queen” for The New Yorker. In this cross between memoir and guidebook, Norris takes readers through her years at The New Yorker while highlighting some of the most important grammar lessons she learned along the way.
For me,
A book like this is difficult to recommend across the board, however, as each reader will be looking for something different. Experienced grammarians may find the guidelines somewhat elementary and find peeking at the life of an editor to be interesting, while others may see the opposite.
For me,
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the book’s highlight was Norris’s discussion of authors who refused to have their grammar corrected in order to protect their voice. She shares examples from authors like James Salter and George Saunders, which makes for a fascinating look at how grammar rules can bend to create beautifully crafted sentences.A book like this is difficult to recommend across the board, however, as each reader will be looking for something different. Experienced grammarians may find the guidelines somewhat elementary and find peeking at the life of an editor to be interesting, while others may see the opposite.
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LibraryThing member St.CroixSue
This is a funny and enlightening book about grammar by Norris who worked for over three decades in the copy department of the New Yorker. It will not interest everyone, but for those who are intrigued with the history of hyphens, commas, and the future of apostrophes – this one is for you.
LibraryThing member ajlewis2
The book is interesting with lots of details about punctuation and such. There is a chapter on the use of profanity and one on pencils and pencil sharpeners. Lots of humor and details of the author's work as a copy editor are sprinkled in. This is not a page turner, but was interesting enough that
The book wasn't thrilling for me, but I am glad I read it.
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by the time I thought about quitting, I was half-way through. This book is for people who want to know what a copy editor does and can appreciate the fun Norris has with the problems a copy editor faces. Someone really good with the English language might appreciate this book more than I who has a moderate command of English and no experience writing or editing books or magazine articles. The book wasn't thrilling for me, but I am glad I read it.
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LibraryThing member Vicki_Weisfeld
This book—part history of language, part grammarians’ bible, part punctilious punctuation-snob puncturer—by a veteran New Yorker copy editor attempts to explain why writers in English, particularly those whose work appears in The New Yorker, make the choices they do. Form, not content, is her
Particularly entertaining are the early sections that include a review of her checkered, pre-New Yorker work experience. (You can’t really call a stint as a milk-truck driver and costume shop clerk a career for a person who did graduate work in English.)
Norris took her title from the common grammar mistake people make in using “I” when “me” is required. I yell at the radio when I hear the awful “between you and I” or “He invited Tom and I . . .” I suspect Norris does too.Several chapters cover the ongoing punctuation wars. No surprise, as the subtitle of the book is Confessions of a Comma Queen. In the comma skirmish, I find I fight on the side of “playing by ear,” dropping in a comma where I sense a pause. And in hyphen disputes, her emphasis on clarity of meaning seems a useful approach. Thus the comma in milk-truck driver above.
Some of the text on verbs got away from me and her suggestion for how to tell whether a sentence needs “who” or “whom” (for the straggling soldiers in that lost battle), her system was overly complex or not explained clearly. I’ll stick with mine.
The very best chapter was devoted to Norris’s love of pencils. Extra-soft No.1 pencils, in fact. The kind of pencil that has also kindled a love of pencil sharpeners. (I’ve served time in innumerable meeting rooms over the years and can tell you that The Ford Foundation’s black pencils, embossed with its name, and the round ones of the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel in Washington, D.C., which come in easter egg pastels, are the best. Whenever I attended meetings there, I stocked up.)
Reading anyone’s description of something they are both passionate and deeply knowledgeable about—making wine, say, or 1950s automobiles—is always interesting, and you learn as much about the person as about their particular interest. I don’t ever have to read about pencils again, but I’m glad I did.
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subject. While that publication is notoriously picky about copy matters, Norris’s anecdote-rich text suggests how much elasticity actually exists within its seemingly constricting rules. Particularly entertaining are the early sections that include a review of her checkered, pre-New Yorker work experience. (You can’t really call a stint as a milk-truck driver and costume shop clerk a career for a person who did graduate work in English.)
Norris took her title from the common grammar mistake people make in using “I” when “me” is required. I yell at the radio when I hear the awful “between you and I” or “He invited Tom and I . . .” I suspect Norris does too.Several chapters cover the ongoing punctuation wars. No surprise, as the subtitle of the book is Confessions of a Comma Queen. In the comma skirmish, I find I fight on the side of “playing by ear,” dropping in a comma where I sense a pause. And in hyphen disputes, her emphasis on clarity of meaning seems a useful approach. Thus the comma in milk-truck driver above.
Some of the text on verbs got away from me and her suggestion for how to tell whether a sentence needs “who” or “whom” (for the straggling soldiers in that lost battle), her system was overly complex or not explained clearly. I’ll stick with mine.
The very best chapter was devoted to Norris’s love of pencils. Extra-soft No.1 pencils, in fact. The kind of pencil that has also kindled a love of pencil sharpeners. (I’ve served time in innumerable meeting rooms over the years and can tell you that The Ford Foundation’s black pencils, embossed with its name, and the round ones of the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel in Washington, D.C., which come in easter egg pastels, are the best. Whenever I attended meetings there, I stocked up.)
Reading anyone’s description of something they are both passionate and deeply knowledgeable about—making wine, say, or 1950s automobiles—is always interesting, and you learn as much about the person as about their particular interest. I don’t ever have to read about pencils again, but I’m glad I did.
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LibraryThing member Schmerguls
Between You & Me Confessions of a Comma Queen, by Mary Norris (read 17 Aug 2016) This is a 2015 book by a copy editor at the New Yorker. She discusses sensibly spelling,, use of comma, and other punctuation,, and grammar. Most of what she says is sensible and easy to follow. She does have a chapter
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on dirty words which is unpleasnt reading and repulsive and spoiled the book, I thought. She also talks a lot about lead pencils which I thought singularly boring and felt was put in to add pages to the book. The final chapters of the book turned me off but one does learn good sense in regard to her discussion of grammar. Show Less
LibraryThing member Amelia_Smith
I really enjoyed this book. It's kind of all-over-the-place; part memoir, part history, part usage guide. If you're just looking for clear rules of usage and punctuation, look elsewhere, but if you can't digest that stuff in large chunks (I know I can't) this is a good place to start. I feel that I
I especially appreciated the chapter in which the author wrestles with the problem of gender in the English language, specifically the lack of a good, widely accepted non-gendered third-person pronoun. She fumbled with pronoun changes when her brother announced his->her new identity as a woman. I don't have anyone that close to me going through gender-ambiguous territory, but I do know some more casually, and I've found it a bit disorienting, linguistically.
There's a lot of gossipy literary New York name-dropping here, which I rather enjoyed, but again, probably not for everyone.
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got a better grasp on what the heck a semi-colon is for, and the difference between a hyphen and a dash, and why I never hear about n-dashes, though m-dashes are all over the place. I especially appreciated the chapter in which the author wrestles with the problem of gender in the English language, specifically the lack of a good, widely accepted non-gendered third-person pronoun. She fumbled with pronoun changes when her brother announced his->her new identity as a woman. I don't have anyone that close to me going through gender-ambiguous territory, but I do know some more casually, and I've found it a bit disorienting, linguistically.
There's a lot of gossipy literary New York name-dropping here, which I rather enjoyed, but again, probably not for everyone.
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LibraryThing member whitreidtan
I am a complete grammar nerd; I just love grammar. My children don't want to let me read their papers because they know that they won't just get corrections, they will get explanations for the corrections. They are not grammar nerds, and they do not appreciate my teachable moments. This drives me
Norris is a copy editor at The New Yorker. She's been there for more than three decades, copyediting amazing authors, meeting famous literati, and being surrounded by some of the best and brightest in the publishing and magazine industries. As she addresses some of the most common grammatical problems normal people encounter, she weaves in her experiences at work on the same subject. She tackles all sorts of punctuation (commas, hyphens, dashes, parentheses, etc.), spelling, word order, profanity in print, pronouns, and more. Each self-contained essay is fairly short and her stance on the topic is easily understood. Her examples from her years at the magazine are not only real world examples, they are completely engaging. Norris explains prescriptive grammarians versus descriptive grammarians, where she falls on the spectrum, and why. Her writing is accessible and the anecdotes are fun. Those looking for a handbook of grammar will not find it here, even though most readers will still learn several things from these highly entertaining and intelligent essays.
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nuts (although my dad contends that it's not a drive; it's a short putt). If I can't influence their writing, at least I seem to have had an impact on their speaking. Maybe someday they'll let me look at their papers too. I doubt it, but in the meantime, I can at least feed my inner grammar nerd by reading books like Mary Norris' Between You and Me: Confessions of a Comma Queen to get my fix. Norris is a copy editor at The New Yorker. She's been there for more than three decades, copyediting amazing authors, meeting famous literati, and being surrounded by some of the best and brightest in the publishing and magazine industries. As she addresses some of the most common grammatical problems normal people encounter, she weaves in her experiences at work on the same subject. She tackles all sorts of punctuation (commas, hyphens, dashes, parentheses, etc.), spelling, word order, profanity in print, pronouns, and more. Each self-contained essay is fairly short and her stance on the topic is easily understood. Her examples from her years at the magazine are not only real world examples, they are completely engaging. Norris explains prescriptive grammarians versus descriptive grammarians, where she falls on the spectrum, and why. Her writing is accessible and the anecdotes are fun. Those looking for a handbook of grammar will not find it here, even though most readers will still learn several things from these highly entertaining and intelligent essays.
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LibraryThing member murderbydeath
I've become more and more interested in language and grammar over the past few years, probably in part because I've been writing more online and I don't want to embarrass myself. Living in Australia has something to do with it too, as I find myself defending why Americans talk or write the way they
Between You & Me was a Christmas gift, and I was expecting, from promotional blurbs, a book with a similar tone to Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynn Truss. It's not; the humour here is...negligible. Or maybe just different. As much as this book is about grammar and usage, it's also a memoir of sorts of Norris' time at The New Yorker.
I was thrilled to learn that I can let go of the guilt I feel for using hyphens instead of proper em/en dashes, because it's an acceptable substitution, given a hyphen is easier to reach on the keyboard. I was also happy to learn I wasn't abusing my dash usage - they're so useful!
But it turns out that using semi-colons is considered pretentious (in America anyway). Bummer; I guess that means I'm pretentious? They just seem to be the natural punctuation for how I write. I try to keep them to a minimum, but I do like stringing together a couple of independent clauses.
Generally, a well-written (I can't imagine the OCD proof-reading process for this book), interesting read about grammar - and the fact that I can use 'grammar' and 'interesting' in the same sentence should say something about Norris' ability to make a dry subject worth reading about.
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do, and I like to be armed with facts.Between You & Me was a Christmas gift, and I was expecting, from promotional blurbs, a book with a similar tone to Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynn Truss. It's not; the humour here is...negligible. Or maybe just different. As much as this book is about grammar and usage, it's also a memoir of sorts of Norris' time at The New Yorker.
I was thrilled to learn that I can let go of the guilt I feel for using hyphens instead of proper em/en dashes, because it's an acceptable substitution, given a hyphen is easier to reach on the keyboard. I was also happy to learn I wasn't abusing my dash usage - they're so useful!
But it turns out that using semi-colons is considered pretentious (in America anyway). Bummer; I guess that means I'm pretentious? They just seem to be the natural punctuation for how I write. I try to keep them to a minimum, but I do like stringing together a couple of independent clauses.
Generally, a well-written (I can't imagine the OCD proof-reading process for this book), interesting read about grammar - and the fact that I can use 'grammar' and 'interesting' in the same sentence should say something about Norris' ability to make a dry subject worth reading about.
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LibraryThing member tangledthread
Part memoir, part English usage guide, and very humorous.
LibraryThing member ASKelmore
My husband knows me well. I came back from a trip a week ago, and this book was waiting for me. I hadn’t heard of it, but if I had, I would have bought it myself. Ms. Norris works at The New Yorker, where since the mid-1970s she has copy-edited (copy edited? Shit. I should know this by now) many
I’m still not sure how best to categorize this book. I’m sure it will be compared to Eats, Shoots and Leaves, but its tone isn’t nearly as scolding. I don’t get the sense that Ms. Norris is judging those of us who make improper use of punctuation; instead I think she is genuinely interested in helping people better understand punctuation so that they can communicate better.
The book provides some insight into work at The New Yorker, including some quirks of its style guide. For example, magazine staff makes use of the diaphoresis, that double-dot bit you see over words such as naïve, in words like cooperate. Staff members also use a double consonant when adding a suffix (travelling instead of traveling, for example). Fascinating. And really appealing to someone like me. This book isn’t for everyone, however. I think there are some folks (I’m thinking of Mary Roach) who can take a topic and make it interesting to literally everyone. I think that to enjoy this book, you need to have at least some passing interest in language. But it can be the slightest of interests. If you ever wonder whether to put a comma in a sentence, for example, you probably have sufficient interest to find this book enjoyable.
One chapter that initially gave me a slight bit of pause was the one on gender. She tackles the idea of gender in nouns in other languages, as well as the attempts to create gendered nouns (e.g. dominatrix) in English. She also talks about the frustrating fact that there is no agreed-upon third person generic; you have to say him or her, there is no singular ‘they’ that is gender neutral. She also dives into the topic of using the appropriate pronouns for someone, as she has experience with this directly: her sister was assigned the gender of male at birth, and later shared with the family that she was in fact a woman. Ms. Norris talks about the early challenges she had with using the correct pronoun. Other than a word choice that I wouldn’t make (she refers to her sister as transsexual instead of transgender; although perhaps that’s the word her sister requested she use), the section is thoughtful and I think really drives home the importance of using the correct pronouns.
I was hovering between a three-star and four-star rating when I turned to find this chapter title: “F*ck This Sh*t.” Come on. That’s unexpected. The book isn’t laugh-out-loud funny, but you can tell that Ms. Norris has a sense of humor and is quite self-aware.
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articles and features. Part how-to (and how-not-to), part history, this book gives the reader some insight into the challenges we face when trying to come up with the best ways to communicate in written English.I’m still not sure how best to categorize this book. I’m sure it will be compared to Eats, Shoots and Leaves, but its tone isn’t nearly as scolding. I don’t get the sense that Ms. Norris is judging those of us who make improper use of punctuation; instead I think she is genuinely interested in helping people better understand punctuation so that they can communicate better.
The book provides some insight into work at The New Yorker, including some quirks of its style guide. For example, magazine staff makes use of the diaphoresis, that double-dot bit you see over words such as naïve, in words like cooperate. Staff members also use a double consonant when adding a suffix (travelling instead of traveling, for example). Fascinating. And really appealing to someone like me. This book isn’t for everyone, however. I think there are some folks (I’m thinking of Mary Roach) who can take a topic and make it interesting to literally everyone. I think that to enjoy this book, you need to have at least some passing interest in language. But it can be the slightest of interests. If you ever wonder whether to put a comma in a sentence, for example, you probably have sufficient interest to find this book enjoyable.
One chapter that initially gave me a slight bit of pause was the one on gender. She tackles the idea of gender in nouns in other languages, as well as the attempts to create gendered nouns (e.g. dominatrix) in English. She also talks about the frustrating fact that there is no agreed-upon third person generic; you have to say him or her, there is no singular ‘they’ that is gender neutral. She also dives into the topic of using the appropriate pronouns for someone, as she has experience with this directly: her sister was assigned the gender of male at birth, and later shared with the family that she was in fact a woman. Ms. Norris talks about the early challenges she had with using the correct pronoun. Other than a word choice that I wouldn’t make (she refers to her sister as transsexual instead of transgender; although perhaps that’s the word her sister requested she use), the section is thoughtful and I think really drives home the importance of using the correct pronouns.
I was hovering between a three-star and four-star rating when I turned to find this chapter title: “F*ck This Sh*t.” Come on. That’s unexpected. The book isn’t laugh-out-loud funny, but you can tell that Ms. Norris has a sense of humor and is quite self-aware.
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LibraryThing member ritaer
A New Yorker magazine copy editor writes of grammar and punctuation puzzles, magazine policy and eccentric colleagues.
LibraryThing member tronella
Nice. I liked the memoir sections and the chapter on pencils and pencil sharpeners best.
I think I've probably read enough humorous grammar/punctuation books for a while, though!
I think I've probably read enough humorous grammar/punctuation books for a while, though!
LibraryThing member PDCRead
The New Yorker’s readers demand the highest standards of copy, and Mary Norris has been of of those editors for the past three decades giving the readers what they demand. Having sharpened all her pencils, she now brings us her take on the newspaper business and the (American) English language.
This is not a bad read overall; it is fairly short, light hearted and informative and she writes with a gentle humour. Whilst she goes in to the minutiae of language with regards to punctuation, it is very much centred on the The New Yorker and her work there. There are some good parts, the chapter on profanity is quite amusing, her ventures into the historical reasons behind certain word uses and her penchant for a particular type of pencil. It is almost trying to do too much; is it a memoir of her work at the paper or a book on language? I’m still not sure. Worth reading, but if you are looking for a book on the delights of language, pop it back on the shelf.
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Working her way through the most common language issues, such as spelling, commas, when to swear, and when not to. She investigates the less common punctuation, extols the use of the hyphen – excessively perhaps and contemplates the genders. Drawing from classic works by Dickens and Melville and reasonably up to date works by Flynn and Wallace she aims to enlighten us in the ways and foibles of our language, from the Oxford comma to the apostrophe that wanders up and down the word depending on the profession. This is not a bad read overall; it is fairly short, light hearted and informative and she writes with a gentle humour. Whilst she goes in to the minutiae of language with regards to punctuation, it is very much centred on the The New Yorker and her work there. There are some good parts, the chapter on profanity is quite amusing, her ventures into the historical reasons behind certain word uses and her penchant for a particular type of pencil. It is almost trying to do too much; is it a memoir of her work at the paper or a book on language? I’m still not sure. Worth reading, but if you are looking for a book on the delights of language, pop it back on the shelf.
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LibraryThing member jostie13
Charming and delightful.
LibraryThing member dmturner
An amiable ramble, partly about The New Yorker, partly about punctuation, partly about pencil sharpeners.
LibraryThing member bell7
In this unique blend of memoir and grammar guide, we get to follow along with Mary Norris, who worked as a copy editor at The New Yorker, as she waxes eloquent about style whether it be comma usage, hyphens, semicolons, the use of taboo language in print, or her preferences for a No. 1 pencil and a
I enjoyed listening to Mary Norris read her own prose (and helpfully spelling out words or vocalizing the punctuation as needed), and her sense of fun when it comes to usage. Yes, there are rules. In fact, I was delighted and amused to find out that The New Yorker uses the second edition of Webster's dictionary first for spelling and usage, for example - I would have chosen Webster's Third myself, but that's the descriptionist in me coming out. She also has a good sense of humor about it all and isn't rigid about what's "right", occasionally including examples where authors break the usage rules but it works better their way. Sometimes grammar is personal, as she discovers when her sister transitioned and Mary had to relearn saying "she" when she most naturally went for "he." Most delightfully, her training means that she's intrigued when something is unexpected, and will go on a bit of research to figure out who put the hyphen in Moby-Dick the title when the whale is simply Moby Dick. I didn't always agree with her style preferences (I don't mind a singular "they"), nor did I always follow her more technical explanations, but I loved getting to see how the mind of a copy editor works and appreciated her eye for style and ear for language.
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good pencil sharpener.I enjoyed listening to Mary Norris read her own prose (and helpfully spelling out words or vocalizing the punctuation as needed), and her sense of fun when it comes to usage. Yes, there are rules. In fact, I was delighted and amused to find out that The New Yorker uses the second edition of Webster's dictionary first for spelling and usage, for example - I would have chosen Webster's Third myself, but that's the descriptionist in me coming out. She also has a good sense of humor about it all and isn't rigid about what's "right", occasionally including examples where authors break the usage rules but it works better their way. Sometimes grammar is personal, as she discovers when her sister transitioned and Mary had to relearn saying "she" when she most naturally went for "he." Most delightfully, her training means that she's intrigued when something is unexpected, and will go on a bit of research to figure out who put the hyphen in Moby-Dick the title when the whale is simply Moby Dick. I didn't always agree with her style preferences (I don't mind a singular "they"), nor did I always follow her more technical explanations, but I loved getting to see how the mind of a copy editor works and appreciated her eye for style and ear for language.
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LibraryThing member japaul22
If you're a grammar nerd, you will probably think this book is fun. Mary Norris is a long-time copy editor at The New Yorker and she has written a book about grammar, spelling, and the editing process. She writes each chapter is essay style, throwing in bits of her life and background.
Overall, I
Overall, I
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liked the parts best that stuck to explaining grammar or describing her various jobs at The New Yorker. I did not really think that her anecdotes were all that funny. I was really hoping for an equivalent of Anne Fadiman's writing about reading and I didn't get that. But that is not to to say this wasn't enjoyable, it just wasn't an instant favorite. I'm still happy to have read it and learned a few things in the process. Show Less
LibraryThing member steve02476
Very enjoyable book. Read it slowly and I really appreciated Norris's sense of humor.
Awards
Ohioana Book Award (Finalist — Nonfiction — 2016)
Publishers Weekly's Best Books of the Year (Nonfiction — 2015)
NPR: Books We Love (2015)
Kirkus Reviews Best Book of the Year (Nonfiction — 2015)