Status
Available
Publication
Pocket (1981)
Description
Fiction. Science Fiction & Fantasy. HTML: When the first warm breeze of Doomsday came wafting over the Shenandoah Valley, the Sumners were ready. Using their enormous wealth, the family had forged an isolated post-holocaust citadel. Their descendants would have everything they needed to raise food and do the scientific research necessary for survival. But the family was soon plagued by sterility, and the creation of clones offered the only answer. And that final pocket of human civilization lost the very human spirit it was meant to preserve as man and mannequin turned on one another. Sweeping, dramatic, rich with humanity, and rigorous in its science, Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang is widely regarded as a high point of both humanistic and hard science fiction. It won science fiction's Hugo Award and Locus Award on its first publication and is as compelling today as it was then..… (more)
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Media reviews
A bleak fairytale account of human cloning which has since been overtaken by science and coloured by the disappointment and alienation of the post-radical 70s. It will seem dated in terms of social mores but nothing else has changed. This is still a chilling, gripping and heartbreaking landmark
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science fiction novel, one of the greatest of its time, about the death of the living world: an SF writer's response to Rachel Carson's Silent spring. Show Less
Mit großem erzählerischem Talent gelingt Kate Wilhelm eine glaubwürdige und spannende Dystopie, die völlig zu Recht zu den Klassikern der Science Fiction Literatur gezählt wird.
Fabulous story, deep thoughts cleverly disguised by amazing character development.
User reviews
LibraryThing member sturlington
In this post-apocalyptic novel, civilization has been destroyed by some unspecified means involving environmental degradation, pandemics and famine. But one extended family, seeing the end coming, has used their wealth to isolate themselves in a well-protected valley and has constructed the
The story is told in three parts, each following a similar arc, each ending in a main character leaving the family’s compound. In the first section, a brilliant doctor helps develop the cloning process but is ousted by his own younger clones, who are already exhibiting disturbing behaviors, such as losing their individual identities. In the second part, a clone is separated from her sister clones when she goes on an expedition to look for supplies in the ruined cities. As a result, she develops an individual personality and an artistic vision that the other clones interpret as madness when she returns to the compound. She must flee to keep from living a life as a drugged-up “breeder.” In the final section, her son is being raised by the clones but clearly doesn’t belong among them. Only he has the ingenuity and creativity necessary for continued survival as the machines and systems set up by the original survivalists begin to break down.
What I thought about as I read this book was recent news stories about children so micro-managed by their “helicopter” parents that they have no ability to cope with the real world and break down as soon as they get to college. The young clones in the story reminded me of younger generations so coddled that they cannot make a decision on their own. How can we survive and advance as a species when we lose our individuality and cannot think for ourselves? is the question.
This is exactly the dilemma faced by the clones. They become so used to a life where they never have to think for themselves that they lose all of their creativity and problem-solving abilities. They become dependent on machines they don’t understand, and when those break down, they cannot come up with creative ways to fix them. So they are doomed. Only those who can establish an individual identity through isolation from the main group are able to learn how to survive.
It may seem on the surface that this novel is a somewhat dated horror story about cloning. But look deeper–the story brings up issues that are very relevant today. Wilhelm is raising a warning flag that we should safeguard our individuality and nurture our creativity if we want to survive.
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hospital, labs and mill they will need to survive. Short on food, they develop cloning techniques to produce more livestock. When they find that most of them have become infertile, they start cloning themselves as well, with unforeseen consequences.The story is told in three parts, each following a similar arc, each ending in a main character leaving the family’s compound. In the first section, a brilliant doctor helps develop the cloning process but is ousted by his own younger clones, who are already exhibiting disturbing behaviors, such as losing their individual identities. In the second part, a clone is separated from her sister clones when she goes on an expedition to look for supplies in the ruined cities. As a result, she develops an individual personality and an artistic vision that the other clones interpret as madness when she returns to the compound. She must flee to keep from living a life as a drugged-up “breeder.” In the final section, her son is being raised by the clones but clearly doesn’t belong among them. Only he has the ingenuity and creativity necessary for continued survival as the machines and systems set up by the original survivalists begin to break down.
What I thought about as I read this book was recent news stories about children so micro-managed by their “helicopter” parents that they have no ability to cope with the real world and break down as soon as they get to college. The young clones in the story reminded me of younger generations so coddled that they cannot make a decision on their own. How can we survive and advance as a species when we lose our individuality and cannot think for ourselves? is the question.
This is exactly the dilemma faced by the clones. They become so used to a life where they never have to think for themselves that they lose all of their creativity and problem-solving abilities. They become dependent on machines they don’t understand, and when those break down, they cannot come up with creative ways to fix them. So they are doomed. Only those who can establish an individual identity through isolation from the main group are able to learn how to survive.
It may seem on the surface that this novel is a somewhat dated horror story about cloning. But look deeper–the story brings up issues that are very relevant today. Wilhelm is raising a warning flag that we should safeguard our individuality and nurture our creativity if we want to survive.
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LibraryThing member RBeffa
This was an interesting post-apocalyptic novel that won several awards after it's 1976 publication. The story is told in three parts. I liked the first part the best where the world is hit with an environmental catastrophe that renders humans and animals increasingly sterile and crops collapse as a
I was slow to warm to the middle part of the story when enough time has passed that all the original humans from the initial story have passed on and the focus is on the succeeding generations of clones. It was a little hard to sort out the characters but as the story continued things made more sense. However I think the author dropped the ball on a few things within the story which prevents me from really liking this. Not a perfect book but I definitely enjoyed reading this.
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consequence of pollution. That is not the focus of the story however. The story focuses on several characters who are part of a family that sees this coming before most and prepares to survive by developing clones in a semi-rural area near the Shendendoah Valley in Virginia. In the middle part of the book a journey is taken that reaches the ruins of Washington DC long after the extinction event. The science of all of this is rather dicey although the plagues that devastate populations are quite possible. The clones are not like the humans they came from and that drives the story.I was slow to warm to the middle part of the story when enough time has passed that all the original humans from the initial story have passed on and the focus is on the succeeding generations of clones. It was a little hard to sort out the characters but as the story continued things made more sense. However I think the author dropped the ball on a few things within the story which prevents me from really liking this. Not a perfect book but I definitely enjoyed reading this.
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LibraryThing member Citizenjoyce
What a disappointment. Wilhelm out Ayn Rands Ayan Rand in this pean to individualism ending with one man to lead them all. With the trump regime, we're all seeing how well that goes.
LibraryThing member ScoLgo
"What if...?" That simple phrase is the essential basis of speculative fiction. In Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang, Kate Wilhelm posits the question, "What if humanity were nearly wiped out and the only apparent chance of survival for the species is cloning?". Without wasting too much time on the
The tone of the story is pastoral rather than couched in hard science. Avoiding the tedium of explaining how and why things work the way they do, Wilhelm instead chooses to focus on the social ramifications and on the character development - which is very strong. Reminiscent of writers like Simak and Brackett, Wilhelm's prose is both direct and lyrical. Her characters have very real motivations and it's not difficult to empathize with them as they work through their issues.
Fully deserving the nominations and awards it received, this book was a great read for me. I recommend it to anyone - fan of SF or not. It's one of those books that is more about the fiction than the science - and that's a good thing.
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mechanics of decline, within a few chapters our view is reduced to a single surviving community comprised mostly of scientists that are developing a cloning process as a substitute for widespread infertility in humans. But can the fruit of their labors still be considered as human?The tone of the story is pastoral rather than couched in hard science. Avoiding the tedium of explaining how and why things work the way they do, Wilhelm instead chooses to focus on the social ramifications and on the character development - which is very strong. Reminiscent of writers like Simak and Brackett, Wilhelm's prose is both direct and lyrical. Her characters have very real motivations and it's not difficult to empathize with them as they work through their issues.
Fully deserving the nominations and awards it received, this book was a great read for me. I recommend it to anyone - fan of SF or not. It's one of those books that is more about the fiction than the science - and that's a good thing.
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LibraryThing member satyridae
I read this when it was new, and I loved it then. I still think it's worth reading today- in fact, parts of it are chillingly accurate regarding climate and food.
It suffers mostly from being so brief. There's quite a bit of room for expansion, and although I'm normally a big fan of terseness,
It is a very interesting and very cogent take on cloning, a superbly imagined scenario regarding the problems that might arise in such a society.
It suffers mostly from being so brief. There's quite a bit of room for expansion, and although I'm normally a big fan of terseness,
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there's just a little too much left out here. Some of the loose ends nag well after the book is returned to the library.It is a very interesting and very cogent take on cloning, a superbly imagined scenario regarding the problems that might arise in such a society.
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LibraryThing member DaveCapp
Beautifully written, the concepts and story Kate Wilhelm creates will stay with you years after your first reading. Simply put, this is the Sci-Fi equivalent of Rachel Carson's Silent Spring.
LibraryThing member sf_addict
Tried to read but couldn't get into it.
I may try again later but I dont see why its part of the SF Masterworks series to be honest.
I may try again later but I dont see why its part of the SF Masterworks series to be honest.
LibraryThing member SteveLindahl
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang is a book to read for its ideas rather than its characters. It is the story of a world that is suffering from radiation and other forms of pollution. The ability to reproduce has been damaged. Human and other animal species are disappearing. Plant life has also been
The novel starts out with two cousins, David and Celia, who are in love. Wilhelm uses their love to point out differences between naturally born humans and the first generation of clones.
Three Celias came into view, swinging easily with the weight of the baskets, a stair-step succession of Celias. He shouldn't do that, he reminded himself harshly. They weren't Celias, none of them had that name. They were Mary and Ann and something else. He couldn't remember for a moment the third one's name, and he knew it didn't matter. They were each and every one Celia. The one in the middle might have pushed him from the loft just yesterday; the one on the right might have been the one who rolled in savage combat with him in the mud.
These new clones have a unique sense of empathy. They are extremely close to their “sisters,” but don't reach out well to others. Sex is something the clones are obligated to have and something they enjoy, especially in large groups, but it is never a drive that pushes them into one on one, romantic relationships. Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang was first published in 1977 and I wonder if this aspect might have been a reaction to the Sex, drugs, and rock and roll philosophy of the sixties and early seventies.
There are a number of problems inherent in the idea behind this plot. First of all, there are life forms that are not affected by the pollution. Trees seem to grow fine and so does grass. But beyond this and other technicalities are the problems of a plot about people who have trouble caring for each other. Wilhelm works her way through this by having some characters who still can care.
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang would make a good book club selection because the ideas have the potential to stimulate a great discussion. I found the reviews on Goodreads to be fascinating while the novel itself never captured me completely.
Steve Lindahl - author of Motherless Soul and White Horse Regressions
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affected, so there's less food and the remaining people are fighting for what's left. A family of scientists is working on a solution to this problem. They plan to use cloning to create livestock and people who, hopefully, will be fertile. The novel starts out with two cousins, David and Celia, who are in love. Wilhelm uses their love to point out differences between naturally born humans and the first generation of clones.
Three Celias came into view, swinging easily with the weight of the baskets, a stair-step succession of Celias. He shouldn't do that, he reminded himself harshly. They weren't Celias, none of them had that name. They were Mary and Ann and something else. He couldn't remember for a moment the third one's name, and he knew it didn't matter. They were each and every one Celia. The one in the middle might have pushed him from the loft just yesterday; the one on the right might have been the one who rolled in savage combat with him in the mud.
These new clones have a unique sense of empathy. They are extremely close to their “sisters,” but don't reach out well to others. Sex is something the clones are obligated to have and something they enjoy, especially in large groups, but it is never a drive that pushes them into one on one, romantic relationships. Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang was first published in 1977 and I wonder if this aspect might have been a reaction to the Sex, drugs, and rock and roll philosophy of the sixties and early seventies.
There are a number of problems inherent in the idea behind this plot. First of all, there are life forms that are not affected by the pollution. Trees seem to grow fine and so does grass. But beyond this and other technicalities are the problems of a plot about people who have trouble caring for each other. Wilhelm works her way through this by having some characters who still can care.
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang would make a good book club selection because the ideas have the potential to stimulate a great discussion. I found the reviews on Goodreads to be fascinating while the novel itself never captured me completely.
Steve Lindahl - author of Motherless Soul and White Horse Regressions
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LibraryThing member electrascaife
An epidemic all but wipes out the world's population, but one large (and very wealthy) family pool their extensive expertise to survive it and rebuild on their Shenandoah Valley land. This rebuilding involves cloning of both animals and humans, and the saga, detailed over several generations,
An interesting and well-written story, with characters that I found myself rooting for, nearly every one. Definitely deserving of its Hugo and Locus awards, and definitely recommended.
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follows from there.An interesting and well-written story, with characters that I found myself rooting for, nearly every one. Definitely deserving of its Hugo and Locus awards, and definitely recommended.
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LibraryThing member salimbol
An intelligent, thought-provoking treatment of the sociological and psychological implications of cloning, which grapples with the age-old question about the needs of the individual as opposed to the needs of society (especially as, in the author's universe, cloning seems to engender a kind of hive
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mind and individuality is discouraged). Wilhelm conveys a strong sense of the natural world and humankind's place within it, and is also a dab hand with the inevitable glimpses of the destroyed world outside of her clones' haven (indeed, some of the searing imagery here is made all the more remarkable for the overall 'quietness' of her prose). This book was written in the late 1970s and many of its thematic concerns still resonate strongly today. An excellent addition to the SF Masterworks collection (and how nice to see another female author making the list...). Show Less
LibraryThing member bianca.sayan
Wilhelm's book is perfectly 1970's SF, dark and apocalyptic, the style that stiff, straight-forward stuff. The excitement is all over pretty early on in the book, and the plot was more personal and philosophical than epic. But that's just my preferences talking. It's definitely worth a read, though
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maybe a bit lonely for my taste. Show Less
LibraryThing member Nandakishore_Varma
(Edit to add: the review below contains what some may consider to be spoilers. But on the whole, I do not think that reading this review will spoil the enjoyment of the book for you.)
Science fiction stories usually concern the impact of the progress of science on human beings. When the science part
Did I just say “human beings”? Well, as far as Kate Wilhelm’s Hugo and Locus award-winning novel, Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang is concerned, you can add the word “almost” – since most of the characters in this story are clones.
The Story
The novel is a dystopia: one that many science fiction writers seem to love – the whole world having gone to hell on a handcart. Wars, pollution and pestilence of Biblical proportions are slowly wiping out life on earth. To compound the problem, human beings and animals are becoming increasingly sterile. It seems that the world is doomed to extinction.
The filthy rich Sumner family, up in their farm on the Shenandoah Valley, have read the signs early and have found a solution. They will preserve an island of stability and sanity in a world gone volatile and mad in their mountain citadel – and led by the gifted Dr. Walt, Harry Vlasic and David Sumner, they develop the ultimate answer to sterility – cloning.
So far, so good. Only, they discover too late that clones are not humans in the true sense of the word. Much more single-minded and efficient than their originals, and sharing an extra-sensory empathy with one another, they soon take over… and the world seems ready for a new species. A society where individuality is unknown and any deviation from the group is frowned upon; where sex is a group activity and the production of children, other than the cloned ones, is by harvesting a handful of fertile women as “breeders”. It is the end of humankind as we know it.
Or is it?
On a field trip to gather information and building materials (a perilous one that a few hardy individuals periodically make – it is literally a matter of life and death for any clone to be separated from the group for too long), Molly, the artist, is touched and permanently changed by nature. She can’t go back to the group existence any more: she has rediscovered humanity. Her art becomes steadily less utilitarian and more idiosyncratic, and she begins questioning group values. Of course, this striving for individuality is major deviant behaviour among the clones, so they isolate her in the old house, with its hoard of books. Unknown to them, she is carrying something else – the son of the doctor Ben in her womb.
Molly and her son Mark enjoy an idyllic existence in the old house for five years until they are ultimately discovered. Mark is taken away to live in the communal nursery with other children, and Molly is assigned the role of a breeder, a baby – producing machine.
But once touched by nature, man cannot become a machine again. As the clone community declines because of lack of innovation, abhorrence of nature and the steadily dwindling resources from a dead world, Mark, the earth-child, provides the spark to ensure that humanity is born again.
***
The novel is structured in three parts: the first part (and in my opinion, the weakest) showing the development of the society of the clones and their takeover, the second part detailing Molly’s “conversion” and the third, the renaissance of humanity through Mark. Even though it attempts to be nothing other than science fiction, the mythical overtones are hard to miss. David Sumner is the original savior prophet/ hero, who creates the chosen race and is ultimately sacrificed by them: Molly, the Mother of God/ Mother Goddess: and Mark, the persecuted God Child/ Hero/ Messiah of the new world.
Kate Wilhelm wrote this novel in the seventies, when the cold war was going strong. For Western Europeans and Americans, the Soviet Union was the Devil Incarnate and the ultimate dystopia, a place where human beings have lost all claims to individuality and function only as cogs in the machine, as epitomised by the communist bloc (we now understand that this was far removed from the truth). In those days, a communist takeover of the world was a real threat in the mind of the average American; the end of civilisation as we know it. Part of the success of this novel is that that particular paranoia is explored in detail, without being judgmental.
“The Freedom of the Individual” is at the heart of the American secular religion, sometimes (in the opinion of citizens of other countries) carried to ridiculous extremes (one cannot imagine a philosophy like Ayn Rand’s meriting serious consideration anywhere else in the world). Collectivism of any kind is to be abhorred. So imagine the situation if the human race becomes collective, not through force, not through choice, but as an inherent feature of their biological make-up? That is what the author does, and her prediction on the fate of such a society is clear and unambiguous: death by atrophy of the spirit.
The passage reproduced below encapsulates the author’s philosophy in a nutshell.
…He looked over the class, and continued. “Our goal is to remove the need for sexual reproduction. Then we will be able to plan our future. If we need road builders, we can clone fifty or a hundred for this purpose, train them from infancy, and send them out to fulfill their destiny. We can clone boat builders, sailors, send them out to the sea to locate the course of the fish our first explorers discovered in the Potomac. A hundred farmers, to relieve those who would prefer to be working over the test tubes than hoeing rows of carrots.”
Another ripple of laughter passed over the students. Barry smiled also; without exception they all worked their hours in the fields.
“For the first time since mankind walked the face of the earth,” he said, “there will be no misfits.”
“And no geniuses,” a voice said lazily, and he looked to the rear of the class to see Mark, still slouched down in his chair, his blue eyes bright, grinning slightly. Deliberately he winked at Barry, then closed both eyes again, and apparently returned to sleep.
The community where everybody is forced to work in the fields and children belong to the group and not to their parents seems like a parody of Chairman Mao’s China.
It is interesting to note that Mark saves the society because he is more in tune with nature than the clones who needs the presence of each other for sustenance and cannot survive alone. While stressing individuality, Ms. Wilhelm also seems to advocating the recognition of our umbilical tie to Mother Earth (Gaia, Bhumi, call her whatever you will). Presumably it was the separation which brought about the unnamed catastrophe at the beginning of the story – a scenario which eerily parallels the situation we find ourselves in today…
Science fiction stories usually concern the impact of the progress of science on human beings. When the science part
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dominates, it is called “Hard SF”: when the human part dominates, it is “Soft SF”. However, this is not a rigid categorisation as most Hard SF stories (for example, Asimov’s Foundation series) contain some sociology, and most Soft SF cannot exist without some science. The most fascinating Soft SF stories deal with a society unalterably modified by science, and how human beings come to term with it.Did I just say “human beings”? Well, as far as Kate Wilhelm’s Hugo and Locus award-winning novel, Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang is concerned, you can add the word “almost” – since most of the characters in this story are clones.
The Story
The novel is a dystopia: one that many science fiction writers seem to love – the whole world having gone to hell on a handcart. Wars, pollution and pestilence of Biblical proportions are slowly wiping out life on earth. To compound the problem, human beings and animals are becoming increasingly sterile. It seems that the world is doomed to extinction.
The filthy rich Sumner family, up in their farm on the Shenandoah Valley, have read the signs early and have found a solution. They will preserve an island of stability and sanity in a world gone volatile and mad in their mountain citadel – and led by the gifted Dr. Walt, Harry Vlasic and David Sumner, they develop the ultimate answer to sterility – cloning.
So far, so good. Only, they discover too late that clones are not humans in the true sense of the word. Much more single-minded and efficient than their originals, and sharing an extra-sensory empathy with one another, they soon take over… and the world seems ready for a new species. A society where individuality is unknown and any deviation from the group is frowned upon; where sex is a group activity and the production of children, other than the cloned ones, is by harvesting a handful of fertile women as “breeders”. It is the end of humankind as we know it.
Or is it?
On a field trip to gather information and building materials (a perilous one that a few hardy individuals periodically make – it is literally a matter of life and death for any clone to be separated from the group for too long), Molly, the artist, is touched and permanently changed by nature. She can’t go back to the group existence any more: she has rediscovered humanity. Her art becomes steadily less utilitarian and more idiosyncratic, and she begins questioning group values. Of course, this striving for individuality is major deviant behaviour among the clones, so they isolate her in the old house, with its hoard of books. Unknown to them, she is carrying something else – the son of the doctor Ben in her womb.
Molly and her son Mark enjoy an idyllic existence in the old house for five years until they are ultimately discovered. Mark is taken away to live in the communal nursery with other children, and Molly is assigned the role of a breeder, a baby – producing machine.
But once touched by nature, man cannot become a machine again. As the clone community declines because of lack of innovation, abhorrence of nature and the steadily dwindling resources from a dead world, Mark, the earth-child, provides the spark to ensure that humanity is born again.
***
The novel is structured in three parts: the first part (and in my opinion, the weakest) showing the development of the society of the clones and their takeover, the second part detailing Molly’s “conversion” and the third, the renaissance of humanity through Mark. Even though it attempts to be nothing other than science fiction, the mythical overtones are hard to miss. David Sumner is the original savior prophet/ hero, who creates the chosen race and is ultimately sacrificed by them: Molly, the Mother of God/ Mother Goddess: and Mark, the persecuted God Child/ Hero/ Messiah of the new world.
Kate Wilhelm wrote this novel in the seventies, when the cold war was going strong. For Western Europeans and Americans, the Soviet Union was the Devil Incarnate and the ultimate dystopia, a place where human beings have lost all claims to individuality and function only as cogs in the machine, as epitomised by the communist bloc (we now understand that this was far removed from the truth). In those days, a communist takeover of the world was a real threat in the mind of the average American; the end of civilisation as we know it. Part of the success of this novel is that that particular paranoia is explored in detail, without being judgmental.
“The Freedom of the Individual” is at the heart of the American secular religion, sometimes (in the opinion of citizens of other countries) carried to ridiculous extremes (one cannot imagine a philosophy like Ayn Rand’s meriting serious consideration anywhere else in the world). Collectivism of any kind is to be abhorred. So imagine the situation if the human race becomes collective, not through force, not through choice, but as an inherent feature of their biological make-up? That is what the author does, and her prediction on the fate of such a society is clear and unambiguous: death by atrophy of the spirit.
The passage reproduced below encapsulates the author’s philosophy in a nutshell.
…He looked over the class, and continued. “Our goal is to remove the need for sexual reproduction. Then we will be able to plan our future. If we need road builders, we can clone fifty or a hundred for this purpose, train them from infancy, and send them out to fulfill their destiny. We can clone boat builders, sailors, send them out to the sea to locate the course of the fish our first explorers discovered in the Potomac. A hundred farmers, to relieve those who would prefer to be working over the test tubes than hoeing rows of carrots.”
Another ripple of laughter passed over the students. Barry smiled also; without exception they all worked their hours in the fields.
“For the first time since mankind walked the face of the earth,” he said, “there will be no misfits.”
“And no geniuses,” a voice said lazily, and he looked to the rear of the class to see Mark, still slouched down in his chair, his blue eyes bright, grinning slightly. Deliberately he winked at Barry, then closed both eyes again, and apparently returned to sleep.
The community where everybody is forced to work in the fields and children belong to the group and not to their parents seems like a parody of Chairman Mao’s China.
It is interesting to note that Mark saves the society because he is more in tune with nature than the clones who needs the presence of each other for sustenance and cannot survive alone. While stressing individuality, Ms. Wilhelm also seems to advocating the recognition of our umbilical tie to Mother Earth (Gaia, Bhumi, call her whatever you will). Presumably it was the separation which brought about the unnamed catastrophe at the beginning of the story – a scenario which eerily parallels the situation we find ourselves in today…
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LibraryThing member Jellyn
I started reading this without realizing I was re-reading it. It was interesting to read a book about clones so soon after reading Brothers in Arms and Mirror Dance by Bujold. I think Bujold's got the more realistic picture of clones. But of course there's a lot more going on in this book.
I also
I also
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don't know that I paid enough attention to the cover before. It's an Escher! And it fits. Not just obviously the title, but the whole.. point of the book. There's even a line in the book about looking at black and white and then looking at it the opposite way. In short, perfect cover. Show Less
LibraryThing member clark.hallman
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang is a classic science-fiction novel, written by Kate Wilhelm in 1976. Wilhelm published her first short fiction (The Pint-Size Genie) in the October 1956 issue of Fantastic, which was an American digest-sized fantasy and science fiction magazine published from 1952 to
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1980. She went on the publish her work in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, Locus, Amazing Stories, Asimov's Science Fiction, and other publications. Wilhelm established herself as one of the acclaimed writers of science fiction by winning the Nebula Award for Best Short Story (The Planners) in 1968; the Nebula Award for Best Novelette (The Girl Who Fell into the Sky) in 1986; and the Nebula Award for Best Short Story (Forever Yours, Anna) in 1987. Kate Wilhelm also won the Hugo Award for Best Novel, and the Locus Award for Best Novel, in 1977 for Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang, which was also a finalist for the Nebula Award that year. So what can this reviewer say about this classic science-fiction novel, except that it is a brilliant story, that is brilliantly written, and continues to be fascinating, gripping, and relevant to thoughtful readers in 2013. The plot begins when members of a large wealthy family realize that the World’s society was headed for an apocalypse do to disease, ecological issues, and social upheaval. They prepare for the coming apocalypse by building their own compound with its own power source, food production methods and supplies, living quarters, medical facilities, research facilities, and fortifications. Then they assemble an ensemble of people capable of maximizing the success of the isolated commune. The apocalypse indeed occurs and the colony survives and continues to grow and thrive for many years. However, as younger generations of the colony’s hierarchy begin to take control, unforeseen changes and challenges begin to surface. Over time the previous microcosm of the wider society, begins to deviate. Cloning becomes an important method of maintaining and increasing their population, and the clones become totally dependent upon each other. Eventually individualization is shunned, and creativity and problem-solving wane. I highly recommend this book to anyone who likes science fiction or just likes novels about the perversion of societies due to extreme (and rigid) social conventions and real threats from a crumbling larger society. Show Less
LibraryThing member comixminx
Very much enjoyed, would recommend. One caveat: the premise (cataclysm has happened, earth is drastically underpopulated and human fertility is knackered in) sounds like it fitted into a good old post-apocalyptic mould, but actually I'd say it's more like The Midwich Cuckoos. Its real interest is
One other point that doesn't really count as a caveat - it took me until part-way through the book before I really twigged that this is one of those narrative structures which jumps periods of time. Maybe there was something about the very first sections that made me not quite get that this was how it was working, but a couple of times towards the beginning I flipped back through the pages to see if I'd missed any of the detail. For instance, there is a reference to meeting someone because they wouldn't want her to bump into "those lot down below" and only later do you find out why - obviously this is a good compact way of storytelling, but somehow there was something about the way it was done that led me to miss it at first.
The other thing that is more a personal preference than a quibble - the author does that thing where descendents of the characters you start with end up playing very similar roles, or having similar characteristics, as the original characters did. In a novel where cloning plays a big part this is obviously rather more appropriate than in a novel such as [book: Sarum The Novel of England], where the author re-uses the same characteristics over centuries! It is a stylistic feature that I'm not overly keen on, however.
(I have added a tag for feminism here because while it's not strictly a piece of feminist sf, it clearly has equal relationships between men and women in a way that is laudable for not being elaborated on within the book.)
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in the exploration of aliens-among-us - a group growing within the society which proves to be radically different to the parent society. I had assumed it would give me echoes of [book: Earth Abides], but I guess I'll just have to re-read that separately.One other point that doesn't really count as a caveat - it took me until part-way through the book before I really twigged that this is one of those narrative structures which jumps periods of time. Maybe there was something about the very first sections that made me not quite get that this was how it was working, but a couple of times towards the beginning I flipped back through the pages to see if I'd missed any of the detail. For instance, there is a reference to meeting someone because they wouldn't want her to bump into "those lot down below" and only later do you find out why - obviously this is a good compact way of storytelling, but somehow there was something about the way it was done that led me to miss it at first.
The other thing that is more a personal preference than a quibble - the author does that thing where descendents of the characters you start with end up playing very similar roles, or having similar characteristics, as the original characters did. In a novel where cloning plays a big part this is obviously rather more appropriate than in a novel such as [book: Sarum The Novel of England], where the author re-uses the same characteristics over centuries! It is a stylistic feature that I'm not overly keen on, however.
(I have added a tag for feminism here because while it's not strictly a piece of feminist sf, it clearly has equal relationships between men and women in a way that is laudable for not being elaborated on within the book.)
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LibraryThing member maggotbrain
I liked this book. I had no expectations before reading it, and found myself wanting to read and read until I got to the conclusion. In some ways this is odd, as there doesn't seem to be a great deal of pace or action in the cold light of day. The character development is somewhat stunted
That said, the main themes alone, and the questions it raises are so absorbing, it would be hard not to get drawn into how it all pans out. Some of the scenes are very touching and beautiful, and at other times quite disturbing (usually the seeming coldness of the clones and their decision process).
From a personal point of view, this was an interesting development in the thread that seems to be emerging in my recent choice of reads. For example, I have recently finished Ayn Rand's Anthem, and found the premise of her outlook almost as disturbing as the communist dystopia she was depicting. Her premise that the individual is king and society has no right to make any uniformity acceptable, is a major theme in Wilhelm's book. However, whereas Rand almost leaves you cowering under the sheer defiant challenge, Wilhelm takes you on a journey over time to watch as society evolves and changes. Although Wilhelm clearly has her own point of view, the writing allows for the reader's mind to develop its own opinions and attitudes.
Warrants 4 stars as a sci-fi classic, but the many faults make it an imperfect read.
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(necessarily so to portray the flat nature of the clones), the science behind the apocalypse and the crafted solutions is at best unlikely, and the style of writing is clearly dated.That said, the main themes alone, and the questions it raises are so absorbing, it would be hard not to get drawn into how it all pans out. Some of the scenes are very touching and beautiful, and at other times quite disturbing (usually the seeming coldness of the clones and their decision process).
From a personal point of view, this was an interesting development in the thread that seems to be emerging in my recent choice of reads. For example, I have recently finished Ayn Rand's Anthem, and found the premise of her outlook almost as disturbing as the communist dystopia she was depicting. Her premise that the individual is king and society has no right to make any uniformity acceptable, is a major theme in Wilhelm's book. However, whereas Rand almost leaves you cowering under the sheer defiant challenge, Wilhelm takes you on a journey over time to watch as society evolves and changes. Although Wilhelm clearly has her own point of view, the writing allows for the reader's mind to develop its own opinions and attitudes.
Warrants 4 stars as a sci-fi classic, but the many faults make it an imperfect read.
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LibraryThing member StefanY
Dealing with the sensitive subject of cloning and its effects on an isolated colony of clones, Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang, is a continuous storyline separated into sections with many years in between them. Each segment, so-to-speak, has it's own protagonists and antagonists and crises to deal
Even with the skipping of years in-between segments, the story-line stays pretty continuous and the reader is really able to develop a bond with the characters in a way that I wouldn't think possible with each segment introducing new individuals (or are there actually individuals in a cloned society!)
Overall, this is a wonderful novel filled with adventure, mystery and tough questions regarding what it really is to be either an individual or part of a community. I would highly recommend, not only to science fiction fans but to anyone who wants to be able to have something to think about while also having an enjoyable reading experience.
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with and overcome. Even with the skipping of years in-between segments, the story-line stays pretty continuous and the reader is really able to develop a bond with the characters in a way that I wouldn't think possible with each segment introducing new individuals (or are there actually individuals in a cloned society!)
Overall, this is a wonderful novel filled with adventure, mystery and tough questions regarding what it really is to be either an individual or part of a community. I would highly recommend, not only to science fiction fans but to anyone who wants to be able to have something to think about while also having an enjoyable reading experience.
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LibraryThing member mojomomma
yet another happy story about the end of civilization as we know it. One large family sees the signs and set themselves up in a remote valley to pre serve themselves through cloning themselves. They get past the third generation "slump" when nearly all the clones are sterile and a few babies are
Predictable--oh, yeah. With some rather disconcerting jumps in the plot. So-so.
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now born normally. When Molly gets pregnant she withdraws from the community and raises Mark on her own for 5 years before the community discovers she is a "breeder.". Mark is raised with the cloned children, but he has abilities that that the other kids don't possess--like the ability to be alone and think critically. Will this new civilization survive? No. Will Mark break free and begin a more viable human society. yes.Predictable--oh, yeah. With some rather disconcerting jumps in the plot. So-so.
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LibraryThing member ben_h
Cloning, and it's attendant questions about individuality, sexual identity, and the value of human progress are the theme of [author: Wilhelm]'s post-apocalyptic novel. The book reminds me of [author: Ishiguro]'s [book: Never Let Me Go] and [author: Atwood]'s [book: Handmaid's Tale], but is perhaps
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less didactic and more fun to read. Show Less
LibraryThing member cmwilson101
"Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang" by Kate Wilhelm tells, in three distinct sections, the story of several generations of inhabitants of a valley in the Eastern US. The first section deals with Daniel, a research scientist who sees society begin to crumble around him. He takes measures to ensure
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that his family home, in the valley, stays safe. Subsequent sections are about future inhabitants of the valley, both human and clones. The book is thought-provoking and interesting, the characters compelling. Show Less
LibraryThing member AltheaAnn
I had read this before, but so long ago (early teens?) that I couldn't really remember it. I've liked other stories by Wilhelm, so decided to re-read. Starts off with a nicely promising apocalypse, but quickly becomes a story of oh-no-the-clones! They're not Human!
The (very thin) scientific
Not only is there no logical reason that clones would develop the traits that Wilhelm gives them, the book's message about the importance of creativity and individuality seems like a straw man argument. Would anyone seriously argue that the ability to innovate is NOT important? Maybe there's a bit of a cold-war era residual paranoia about communism that contributed to this; I'm not sure.
The "happy" ending of the book is also problematic. OK, the one 'individual' man kidnaps a harem of fertile women and sets out to repopulate the earth with hardworking innovators. Hmm. Are we concerned about genetic diversity, anyone? The numbers of individuals required for a viable population? Nah, everything'll be fine. (I'm fairly certain that people did know about the problems associated with extreme inbreeding even in 1976.)
I have to admit that I still found the book enjoyable - I just like this sort of apocalyptic novel. But it's definitely flawed.
The (very thin) scientific
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premise is that individuality must be developed at an early age, and if a group of clones grows and develops together, they will fail to develop individuality (and associated traits like creativity, imagination, the ability to fall in love, the possibility of genius, etc). The clones think they are awesome and aim to create a safe, communal society. Only a couple of people see the deadly trap the remnants of humanity are falling into.Not only is there no logical reason that clones would develop the traits that Wilhelm gives them, the book's message about the importance of creativity and individuality seems like a straw man argument. Would anyone seriously argue that the ability to innovate is NOT important? Maybe there's a bit of a cold-war era residual paranoia about communism that contributed to this; I'm not sure.
The "happy" ending of the book is also problematic. OK, the one 'individual' man kidnaps a harem of fertile women and sets out to repopulate the earth with hardworking innovators. Hmm. Are we concerned about genetic diversity, anyone? The numbers of individuals required for a viable population? Nah, everything'll be fine. (I'm fairly certain that people did know about the problems associated with extreme inbreeding even in 1976.)
I have to admit that I still found the book enjoyable - I just like this sort of apocalyptic novel. But it's definitely flawed.
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LibraryThing member Radaghast
A haunting masterpiece, and the definitive book about human cloning. Kate Wilhelm should be regarded as one of the greatest science fiction writers of all time.
LibraryThing member crazybatcow
While the story does manage to avoid a lot of the "dated-ness" common in late 70's science fiction, isn't overly moralistic and didn't swing into detailed gratuitous "sexual liberation"... (it is there, just not excessively graphic as it might have been) it's really just an average story with no
All in all - it's nothing to write home about, but it's an okay story if you've got nothing better on your plate, or you want to hear an okay science fiction/post-apocalyptic story.
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big surprises, a bit slow in places, okay in others.All in all - it's nothing to write home about, but it's an okay story if you've got nothing better on your plate, or you want to hear an okay science fiction/post-apocalyptic story.
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LibraryThing member bedda
The story starts when it is already too late to save the world as we know it. A small group who realized the danger before the rest of the world was willing to accept the truth had started to prepare and plan for the future. They decide the only way to save the human race is to create clones. As
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the clones start to take over from the originals the story starts to explore the importance of individuality, imagination, original thought, and having differences. It was a quick start and you were soon in the middle of the main issues as the original humans were starting to find themselves obsolete. And it makes you think about what humanity is as the clones take over and it becomes apparent that they think differently, and do things differently. The question comes up of whether they have saved the human race or created something completely new. But even though I found the concept interesting it took me a while to get into this story. Due to the very nature of the characters there is a lack of emotion at times that I found hard to connect to. It took longer to get to know these characters and care for them. In time I did, but it took a while. I would say that if you are at all interested in post-apocalyptic stories (or clones) you should definitely give this one a try. Show Less
LibraryThing member Carol_W
This book is post-holocaust science fiction from the 1980s, and the tech level at the opening of the story – before the crash – definitely dates the work. The catastrophe is clearly a man-made one, involving pollution- and population-fueled famines and epidemics. As such, it speaks to our time.
As a biologist, I’m not quite sure what to make of the biological science. Wilhelm shows humanity in crisis from widespread infertility, threatening extinction of the species. This isn’t impossible. Male fertility is currently declining, blamed in an article I read, on high environmental hormone levels from contraceptives. Other environmental causes are clearly possible. The solution the characters in the story choose is cloning – with unanticipated results from which she derives most of the conflict. Wilhelm depicts a progressive loss of mental capacity (especially creativity) in successive generations of clones. This is possible, I suppose, although I would expect there to be a parallel decline in general viability, and this is not seen in the story. Wilhelm’s depiction of the twin-effect within each clone (I’m using the word in the original sense of “a group of genetically identical individuals”) is both interesting and plausible given what I know about twins, especially identical twins.
Wilhelm moves through three generations of characters in the course of the book, and I was often a uncertain how old each point-of-view character (there are four) had become. Frequent time-jumps were one of the more confusing aspect of the story. Although they allowed Wilhelm to cover a lot of temporal ground – which she needed to do – they were often very poorly marked in the narrative, leaving me to deduce that a chunk of time had just passed and to guess at how much it might have been. As a person who likes to identify with central characters, I was disappointed that several of them were simply dropped when they ceased to have a bearing on the story. The circumstances were such that they were possibly, or presumably, slated to die in the near future. While I don’t enjoy watching characters I’ve come to care about die, not having their fates made clear left me a bit closure-hungry. With the exceptions of these criticisms, the writing was generally effective, even evocative when dealing with unusual events and experiences. Overall, the book is well worth a read.
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Although Wilhelm does not discuss global warming, as such, she does understand that ceasing all industrial activity would eventually lead to global cooling. Her cooling effect happens rather sooner than I think would be the case, but then she’s a little vague about how much time has passed in the course of her story.As a biologist, I’m not quite sure what to make of the biological science. Wilhelm shows humanity in crisis from widespread infertility, threatening extinction of the species. This isn’t impossible. Male fertility is currently declining, blamed in an article I read, on high environmental hormone levels from contraceptives. Other environmental causes are clearly possible. The solution the characters in the story choose is cloning – with unanticipated results from which she derives most of the conflict. Wilhelm depicts a progressive loss of mental capacity (especially creativity) in successive generations of clones. This is possible, I suppose, although I would expect there to be a parallel decline in general viability, and this is not seen in the story. Wilhelm’s depiction of the twin-effect within each clone (I’m using the word in the original sense of “a group of genetically identical individuals”) is both interesting and plausible given what I know about twins, especially identical twins.
Wilhelm moves through three generations of characters in the course of the book, and I was often a uncertain how old each point-of-view character (there are four) had become. Frequent time-jumps were one of the more confusing aspect of the story. Although they allowed Wilhelm to cover a lot of temporal ground – which she needed to do – they were often very poorly marked in the narrative, leaving me to deduce that a chunk of time had just passed and to guess at how much it might have been. As a person who likes to identify with central characters, I was disappointed that several of them were simply dropped when they ceased to have a bearing on the story. The circumstances were such that they were possibly, or presumably, slated to die in the near future. While I don’t enjoy watching characters I’ve come to care about die, not having their fates made clear left me a bit closure-hungry. With the exceptions of these criticisms, the writing was generally effective, even evocative when dealing with unusual events and experiences. Overall, the book is well worth a read.
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Awards
Hugo Award (Nominee — Novel — 1977)
Nebula Award (Nominee — Novel — 1976)
Locus Award (Finalist — Novel — 1977)
John W. Campbell Memorial Award for Best Science Fiction Novel (Finalist — 1977)
Jupiter Award (1977)
Language
Original publication date
1976-01
ISBN
0671435329 / 9780671435325