Status
Available
Publication
Hackett Publishing Company, Inc. (2002), Edition: 2, 168 pages
Description
The second edition of Five Dialogues presents G. M. A. Grube's distinguished translations, as revised by John Cooper for Plato, Complete Works . A number of new or expanded footnotes are also included along with an updated bibliography.
Collection
Language
ISBN
0872206335 / 9780872206335
Local notes
Given by Br Evan Watson, 2018
User reviews
LibraryThing member fundevogel
This was recommended to me by the single most coolest stranger I have ever spent a few hours trapped on a plane with. It is by Plato (boo) but purports to be accounts of philosophical conversations Socrates had. I really enjoyed the first two (Euthyphro and Apologia) which dealt with issues of
These last three, based on my limited exposure in college, feel very Plato to me. They range in topic from the nature of learning to the human soul and a truly Seussical argument that the quality of the thing comes not from its quantifiable attributes, but from it's relationship with Plato's beloved ideals or, as he called them, "Forms". These Forms are not anything we can see, or even really describe. They are simply the most pure form of a given ideal or attribute. Plato was really hung up on the ideal that the world as we see it is just a shitty copy of the ideals. I can't imagine he was much fun to hang out with. He also seems from this book to have desperately needed a lay as he was far too zealous in his claims that celibacy was absolutely necessary for the soul to prosper after death. I think it's a pretty simple case of sour grapes myself, but I digress.
As I said, the topics in these last three are rangy, but they do share a commonality. They are all patent balderdash. Seriously. I don't think Plato (or Socrates if you're willing to accept that) even knew what a logical fallacy was. I wrote many irreverent notes in my margins (some about Plato's mother) as my irritation grew. So what was the problem? Honestly, it's roughly the same one I had with Lee's Strobel's [Case for Christ]. It starts with a premise for which there is no evidence but that the author dearly wants to be true, almost certainly for the comfort it provides him. In this case it is that the soul is immortal and that once it is freed from the body it is granted clear sight and infinite knowledge. And like Lee Strobel the rest of Plato/Socrates' claims are dependent their audience accepting this first unsupportable claim. The similarity doesn't end there.
Each dialogue is presented as if it is a serious philosophical debate, but by the last three hardly any of the participants speak at all except to periodically tell Socrates how great he is and how right whatever nonsense he's just said is. You could rename this section of the book "Socrates and the Sycophants". It's very similar to the investigation that isn't really an investigation undertaken by Strobel, though Plato/Socrates is probably guiltier of far more self-satisfied moronic brain-wanking than Strobel ever could be.
All in all I enjoyed the book. The first two dialogues I genuinely enjoyed and the last three I enjoyed bitching about. This I found worthy as I do love to hate Plato and had felt ill prepared to do so before and wasn't about to read [The Republic]. Oh, and at the end Socrates drinks hemlock and dies. It isn't as dramatic as it sounds though.
Excerpt from Phaedo:
...if someone tells me a thing is beautiful because it has a bright colour or shape or any such thing, I ignore these other reasons--for all these confuse me--but I simply, naively and perhaps foolishly cling to this, that nothing else makes it beautiful other than the presence of, or the sharing in, or however you may describe its relationship to that Beautiful we mentioned, for I will not insist on the precise nature of the relationship, but that all beautiful things are beautiful by the Beautiful. That, I think, is the safe answer for me or anyone else to give, namely, that it is through the Beauty that beautiful things are made beautiful...
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justice, the second of which is theoretically the speech Socrates gave in his defense while he was on trial. The last three were philosophical and scientific train wrecks.These last three, based on my limited exposure in college, feel very Plato to me. They range in topic from the nature of learning to the human soul and a truly Seussical argument that the quality of the thing comes not from its quantifiable attributes, but from it's relationship with Plato's beloved ideals or, as he called them, "Forms". These Forms are not anything we can see, or even really describe. They are simply the most pure form of a given ideal or attribute. Plato was really hung up on the ideal that the world as we see it is just a shitty copy of the ideals. I can't imagine he was much fun to hang out with. He also seems from this book to have desperately needed a lay as he was far too zealous in his claims that celibacy was absolutely necessary for the soul to prosper after death. I think it's a pretty simple case of sour grapes myself, but I digress.
As I said, the topics in these last three are rangy, but they do share a commonality. They are all patent balderdash. Seriously. I don't think Plato (or Socrates if you're willing to accept that) even knew what a logical fallacy was. I wrote many irreverent notes in my margins (some about Plato's mother) as my irritation grew. So what was the problem? Honestly, it's roughly the same one I had with Lee's Strobel's [Case for Christ]. It starts with a premise for which there is no evidence but that the author dearly wants to be true, almost certainly for the comfort it provides him. In this case it is that the soul is immortal and that once it is freed from the body it is granted clear sight and infinite knowledge. And like Lee Strobel the rest of Plato/Socrates' claims are dependent their audience accepting this first unsupportable claim. The similarity doesn't end there.
Each dialogue is presented as if it is a serious philosophical debate, but by the last three hardly any of the participants speak at all except to periodically tell Socrates how great he is and how right whatever nonsense he's just said is. You could rename this section of the book "Socrates and the Sycophants". It's very similar to the investigation that isn't really an investigation undertaken by Strobel, though Plato/Socrates is probably guiltier of far more self-satisfied moronic brain-wanking than Strobel ever could be.
All in all I enjoyed the book. The first two dialogues I genuinely enjoyed and the last three I enjoyed bitching about. This I found worthy as I do love to hate Plato and had felt ill prepared to do so before and wasn't about to read [The Republic]. Oh, and at the end Socrates drinks hemlock and dies. It isn't as dramatic as it sounds though.
Excerpt from Phaedo:
...if someone tells me a thing is beautiful because it has a bright colour or shape or any such thing, I ignore these other reasons--for all these confuse me--but I simply, naively and perhaps foolishly cling to this, that nothing else makes it beautiful other than the presence of, or the sharing in, or however you may describe its relationship to that Beautiful we mentioned, for I will not insist on the precise nature of the relationship, but that all beautiful things are beautiful by the Beautiful. That, I think, is the safe answer for me or anyone else to give, namely, that it is through the Beauty that beautiful things are made beautiful...
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LibraryThing member joshua.pelton-stroud
Dialogues taken from around the time of Socrates' death. I picked up this book wanting to understand more about the thinking of Socrates and the progressions of logical thought. My only previous introduction to "the Socratic Method" was from pop culture references and its abysmal application in
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public education.Apology, Crito and Phaedo all center upon Socrates' trial, personal philosophy and final conversation (respectively) and, while interesting from an academic point of view, I did not find them very helpful with regard to understanding the manner in which Socrates' plied his trade.Euthyphro and Meno, on the other hand, were remarkable for my understanding.In Euthyphro, Socrates attacks the question of the meaning of virtue when a young man decides to sue his father for the (supposedly) wrongful death of one slave that had killed another. In Meno, Socrates again tries to grasp an underlying meaning to the word, this time with a focus as to the nature of virtue, and whether or not it is a kind of knowledge that can be taught or it is ingrained in the "soul" of a man. While, in Meno, the conversation detours into a discussion of the soul and Socrates' personal belief that knowledge is eternal and "recollected" by the individual rather than learned or discovered, the characterization of knowledge, education and definition were extremely interesting.G. M. A. Grube's translations are at once simple and elegant prose which made for both enjoyable reading and clear understanding of the text. While the particular dialogues were not necessarily the best ones to cut my teeth on for my particular learning project, I would definitely recommend this collection for any one wanting more of the Man behind the Method. Show Less
LibraryThing member KatharineDB
really not that excited by Plato - what can I say ?
LibraryThing member blake.rosser
Apology, Phaedo, cool, more for historical purposes than any of their philosophical points. I don't think I like the Socratic method.
LibraryThing member Benedict8
Every educated person should read these brief dialogs because they are the closest thing to an underpinning of Western philosophy.
LibraryThing member judithrs
Five Dialogues: Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Meno, Phaedo. Plato, translated by G.M.A. Gruber. 1981. This was the first reading selection for the new book club. I hadn’t read Plato since Dr. Lott’s class in world literature at Montevallo, so reading it was tough, although the more I read the
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easier it became. After the discussion I want to go back and re-read it! What struck me was the similarities of the ethical concerns in these with Judo-Christian thought. Show Less