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Publication
St. Martin's Paperbacks (1999), Mass Market Paperback, 322 pages
Description
It is 1936 and Lord Peter Wimsey has returned from his honeymoon to set up home with his cherished new wife, the novelist Harriet Vane. As they become part of fashionable London society they encounter the glamorous socialite Rosamund Harwell and her wealthy impressario husband Laurence. Unlike the Wimseys, they are not in love - and all too soon, one of them is dead. A murder case that only Lord Peter Wimsey can solve.
User reviews
LibraryThing member lilithcat
Walsh took the notes that Sayers left for a Wimsey/Vane mystery, and finished it. I'd rather they had simply published the notes. It is quite obvious where Sayers notes ended, and Walsh is simply incapable of writing in anything like Sayers' voice. She may well write decent novels of her own, but I
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wish she'd kept her hands off Peter and Harriet. Show Less
LibraryThing member atimco
As a self-confessed Lord Peter Wimsey binge reader, I was hesitant to pick up Thrones, Dominations. You just never know what you will get with beloved authors' books being finished by someone else. Dorothy Sayers is incomparable, of course—but Jill Paton Walsh does a decent job finishing this
I tend to agree with most reviewers that this is generally enjoyable but not at Sayers' level. I don't see myself revisiting it like I do the true Sayers titles.
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tale. Peter and Harriet solve the mystery, naturally, but they also solve something in their own emotional development, maturing in their marriage along the way. This was the first Sayers novel that I know of that had a motive of sexual passion (tastefully handled). The mechanics of the mystery itself are serviceable, no more. I tend to agree with most reviewers that this is generally enjoyable but not at Sayers' level. I don't see myself revisiting it like I do the true Sayers titles.
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LibraryThing member ben_a
I read all* the Sayers books years ago, which gave me a lasting affection for the characters. If you are someone with a similar background you will probably enjoy this book. Unlike the Parker rewrite of the last Chandler, there's nothing in the style to make you stop reading, and you get to spend
*(The exception being Nine Tailors, which I picked up only a few weeks ago)
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time in the company of a familiar style and mis-en-scene. That said, it wouldn't be one of the better Sayers. The description that will stay with me is one of sewer rats, caught in the beam of a flashlight "returning loathing for loathing."*(The exception being Nine Tailors, which I picked up only a few weeks ago)
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LibraryThing member AprilFollies
Jill Paton Walsh does a fairly good job of staying true to the tone of the Sayers novels - most of the time. (Of course, this is occasionally done by re-using jokes and phrases from the other books, but writers borrow from their own earlier work sometimes, too.) Harriet's maid, for instance, writes
In the area of human sexuality Ms. Walsh is a bit too modern. Ms. Sayers had elegant circumlocutions for the "interesting revelations of the marriage-bed"; Ms. Walsh is reserved by modern standards, but goes too near, and dwells too much upon, sexual aspects. The historical politics, too, are too self-consciously evident; they upstage the story, rather than providing firm background for it.
While Ms. Walsh does a good job with Peter and Harriet Wimsey, some other characters don't ring quite true. The Dowager Duchess' diary is far too on-point for that free-associating lady. Helen is a bit too low-class in her treatment of Harriet. And the idea of Bunter (a) with many siblings and (b) in love is a bit hard to visualize. (It departs from the older English trope of the perfect gentleman's gentleman, devoted only to his master.)
The book was a very good read, and I'm glad I bought it. It just cannot quite match Ms. Sayers' finished works.
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letters that combine Ms. Climpson's from one novel with Bunter's from another.In the area of human sexuality Ms. Walsh is a bit too modern. Ms. Sayers had elegant circumlocutions for the "interesting revelations of the marriage-bed"; Ms. Walsh is reserved by modern standards, but goes too near, and dwells too much upon, sexual aspects. The historical politics, too, are too self-consciously evident; they upstage the story, rather than providing firm background for it.
While Ms. Walsh does a good job with Peter and Harriet Wimsey, some other characters don't ring quite true. The Dowager Duchess' diary is far too on-point for that free-associating lady. Helen is a bit too low-class in her treatment of Harriet. And the idea of Bunter (a) with many siblings and (b) in love is a bit hard to visualize. (It departs from the older English trope of the perfect gentleman's gentleman, devoted only to his master.)
The book was a very good read, and I'm glad I bought it. It just cannot quite match Ms. Sayers' finished works.
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LibraryThing member Bookish59
The complexity and detail of Sayer's mysteries are the foundation of her success. Her knowledge of people and their behavior continues the build of a strong, sound story structure.
Thrones and Dominations started by Sayers and completed by Jill Paton Walsh is no exception. It continues Sayer's
This mystery also moves the lives of Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane along very nicely.
A wonderful read!
Thrones and Dominations started by Sayers and completed by Jill Paton Walsh is no exception. It continues Sayer's
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sophisticated style and delivers satisfaction. This mystery also moves the lives of Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane along very nicely.
A wonderful read!
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LibraryThing member elwyne
LOVE IT. Jill Paton Walsh does a great job with Sayers' characters, capturing them perfectly. A great story, great characters, great mystery.
LibraryThing member themulhern
This book is toxic fluff, but it continues the trend really begun in Gaudy Night in many ways.
For example, the third-person narrative focuses on Harriet's internal musings and ignores Peter's. Sayers' early books seldom gave the reader access to Wimsey's thoughts, but when they did they did so with
It manages to retain its misogyny by suggesting that when a husband strangles his wife no one could blame him if they were known to have "that kind of relationship". Is that really what everybody still believes or is that what everybody is supposed to have believed then?
There is a brief excursion into the London sewers, which might have been interesting. It really leads to nothing and the adventurous part is perfunctory. It should have been left out or improved.
It was not edited so carefully before publication. In one scene "Wimsey and Charles" walk into some room. The last name of one followed by the first name of the other jarred on my ear. Many other phrases seem to fall awkwardly.
The, novelistically authentic details of life at that time, which are what make Gaudy Night bearable, are missing from this novel. The author seems to be substituting for these details significant historical events, but these obtrude on the action of the novel rather than enhancing its interest. Wimsey's occasional emergency employment by the foreign office is downright ridiculous. Again, this was handled better in Gaudy Night where he did not interact with people whose names are still remembered today but with his equivalents in other governments.
There is much talk by the characters in the novel about whether or not the newly married couple will have children. If two people are constantly having sex without engaging in any form of contraception then pregnancy is a likely result. And if they're actually considering whether or not they should have children then they should either lay off the sex or adapt it so that it is unlikely to result in conception. It makes all the talk seem like a bizarre and weaselly and probably RC argument about nothing at all.
The solution to the "mystery" was telegraphed without any subtlety.
For example, the third-person narrative focuses on Harriet's internal musings and ignores Peter's. Sayers' early books seldom gave the reader access to Wimsey's thoughts, but when they did they did so with
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good effect. Some scenes, like Wimsey's discovery of the body in Unnatural Death, are quite gripping. However, in Gaudy Night we are exposed to Harriet's thoughts over and over, and they are tiresome. Thrones, Dominations is less excusable because it is not a contemporary novel where the author is, earnestly if clumsily, trying to explore The Role of Women. Instead, it is a pastiche in a non-contemporary setting, seemingly almost entirely about the the sexual behavior appropriate to well-dressed and affluent English people of leisure in the era in which it is set. This is not a gripping topic and the various literary allusions which are meant to make it more interesting or perhaps tolerable fail utterly.It manages to retain its misogyny by suggesting that when a husband strangles his wife no one could blame him if they were known to have "that kind of relationship". Is that really what everybody still believes or is that what everybody is supposed to have believed then?
There is a brief excursion into the London sewers, which might have been interesting. It really leads to nothing and the adventurous part is perfunctory. It should have been left out or improved.
It was not edited so carefully before publication. In one scene "Wimsey and Charles" walk into some room. The last name of one followed by the first name of the other jarred on my ear. Many other phrases seem to fall awkwardly.
The, novelistically authentic details of life at that time, which are what make Gaudy Night bearable, are missing from this novel. The author seems to be substituting for these details significant historical events, but these obtrude on the action of the novel rather than enhancing its interest. Wimsey's occasional emergency employment by the foreign office is downright ridiculous. Again, this was handled better in Gaudy Night where he did not interact with people whose names are still remembered today but with his equivalents in other governments.
There is much talk by the characters in the novel about whether or not the newly married couple will have children. If two people are constantly having sex without engaging in any form of contraception then pregnancy is a likely result. And if they're actually considering whether or not they should have children then they should either lay off the sex or adapt it so that it is unlikely to result in conception. It makes all the talk seem like a bizarre and weaselly and probably RC argument about nothing at all.
The solution to the "mystery" was telegraphed without any subtlety.
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LibraryThing member veracite
Peter and Harriet are a bit unreadably smug at times. A cautionary tale of why you should never find out too much about the author. It makes me want to like Helen more than she deserves, just because everyone else doesn't.
Interestingly enough, many other reviewers on this site don't like the book
Interestingly enough, many other reviewers on this site don't like the book
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because they don't think Paton Walsh has got the Sayers' voices right. I don't like it because I think she did. Show Less
LibraryThing member raschneid
Fan sequels or continuations have a reputation for being awful, but Walsh really did almost get it right in this book. To my (contemporary American) ear, she gets Sayers' voice spot on, and delivers just the right combination of fun character drama and tangled mystery.
There are a few self-indulgent
killing the bromance, I can't decide if I'm satisfied with the way she managed it.
Finally, the mystery was simply a little bit weaker than Sayer's original efforts, no question. Mostly it was very compelling, but there were a couple moments at which the characters had to be stupider than the reader, and a whole lot of coincidence to make things work (like seven different people randomly wandering around the bungalow that night? Really?)
But I really enjoyed it, and there was lots of Peter and Harriet being adorable. What more do I really need? :)
There are a few self-indulgent
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moments that feel more like homages or metatextual commentary on the series, and every scene dealing with current events makes me wonder if Our Heroes would really have had the perfectly-correct-from-hindsight opinions that Walsh paints them with (not that I really see Peter and Harriet being pro-appeasement or anything - but Walsh is still very careful to let us know that they're not). And while I'm glad she solved the Problem Of Bunter without killing the bromance, I can't decide if I'm satisfied with the way she managed it.
Finally, the mystery was simply a little bit weaker than Sayer's original efforts, no question. Mostly it was very compelling, but there were a couple moments at which the characters had to be stupider than the reader, and a whole lot of coincidence to make things work (like seven different people randomly wandering around the bungalow that night? Really?)
But I really enjoyed it, and there was lots of Peter and Harriet being adorable. What more do I really need? :)
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LibraryThing member KimMR
I liked this book more than I expected to and less than I wanted to. I've been on a bit of a Dorothy L Sayers binge recently. Or rather, I've been on a Peter and Harriet binge, as over the past few weeks I've re-read the four novels involving them one after the other. I remember hearing about
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Thrones, Dominations when it was first published, but didn't read it at the time. Always very wary about anything which could be classed as fan fiction, I was pleasantly surprised that Jill Paton Walsh struck the right tone for Peter and Harriet most of time. However, there were a few occasions when I thought that DLS would never have had Peter (or Harriet, or Bunter) say or do a particular thing - and it jarred unpleasantly. Still and all, I enjoyed being able to spend more time with one of my favourite literary couples. And I am very glad that I have two more instalments to go! Show Less
LibraryThing member Kathy89
The mystery of the murdered woman was pretty thin and listening to the audiobook, my mind wandered. However, the dated dialog between Peter and Harriet was amusing in that snobby, silly, upper class 1930's vernacular.
LibraryThing member phoebesmum
Jill Paton Walsh here takes up an unfinished Sayers manuscript to give us a glimpse into the married life of Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane. For the most part, the exercise is a success. The book has been accused of reading like fan fiction, and, to a certain extent, this is true, but it’s
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good fan fiction, and at least Peter isn’t shagging Bunter. Show Less
LibraryThing member NellieMc
Reread this recently and thoroughly enjoyed it. However, it should be noted that the mystery is a bit weak -- it's really a book about relationships, comparing the Vane/Wimsey match with a society match. You do need to be a Wimsey fan and have read the books leading up to this -- otherwise, the
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characters do come off as a bit much. But if you are, you definitely need this for your library. And Jill Walsh did an excellent job matching Sayers' voice. Show Less
LibraryThing member gbelik
This Peter Whimsey/Harriet Vane novel was finish by Walsh from notes left by Sayers. It did honor the Sayers style, though perhaps a little labored. It is set just after Peter and Harriet return from their honeymoon. The mystery was so-so, but I enjoyed Harriet's experiences trying to fit into Lord
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Peter's family. Show Less
LibraryThing member hailelib
I may read another of these but this one wasn't quite up to the level of the original Wimsey novels. Not awful, just slow to get into and only a mildly interesting mystery.
LibraryThing member raizel
I enjoyed this much more than I thought I would. The mystery part is a bit confusing and some clues are given way too late in the story and I guessed whodunit, but the non-mystery parts of the story, which deal with people and relationships with lots of contrasting couples, was well done. I also
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liked the discussions about creative work of writing. Show Less
LibraryThing member bookswamp
Lord Peter No. 13; a fragment from 1936, "Finished" by Mrs. Walsh; not too bad as it goes but for a Sayers and Lord Peter lover, something is amiss.
LibraryThing member wfzimmerman
"Sharecropped" follow-on to the Wimsey novels. Not, alas, especially distinguished ... I would have liked to see a much more florid storyline.
LibraryThing member jennybeast
I suppose it's a bit heretical to like the continuation of the Wimsey/Vane mysteries even better than the originals, but there it is. I love not having to look out for the blatantly racist language that peppers the books from another time, and I love Peter and Harriet together. Gaudy Night and
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Busman's Honeymoon were always my favorite books of the originals, and it's a tribute to Jill Paton Walsh that her work can flow so seamlessly into Sayers' drafts and plans. So grateful to have these latter day stories, and that are so faithful to the witty wordplay and characters of the earlier books. This audio book version was even read by the same actor as the others, and I am so happy to listen to that reader. Show Less
LibraryThing member JaneSteen
Where I got the book: my bookshelf. A re-read.
After reading through the Wimsey series in the last year or so, I found myself reaching for Jill Paton Walsh's authorized continuation of the Peter/Harriet story out of the need for a comforting shot of a world where, amid chaos and murder, two
That aside, it's a nice little mystery involving, with rather heavy obviousness, a marriage that contrasts with the Wimseys'; two people engaged in a constant game of oneupmanship and unhappy misunderstanding. Normal marriage, in other words. In late Sayers style it brings in two French characters who possess a deep wisdom in all matters concerning l'amour, another idealization that devoted readers must forgive. I feel that Jill Paton Walsh's main contribution to this novel (which Sayers had sketched out and, I think, started to write but abandoned) might be the plot involving King Edward VIII, the rather worryingly pro-German monarch who abdicated to marry Mrs. Simpson. Sayers tended to ignore history in her novels--except, of course, for the after-effects of World War I, which had evidently made a deep impression on her.
Not a bad story, on the whole, and a decent fix for Wimsey fans who want more.
After reading through the Wimsey series in the last year or so, I found myself reaching for Jill Paton Walsh's authorized continuation of the Peter/Harriet story out of the need for a comforting shot of a world where, amid chaos and murder, two
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characters have found a still center of mutual adoration. Like Busman's Honeymoon, an awful lot of Thrones, Dominations seems to be devoted to showing the Wimsey marriage as a perfect model of harmony both in and out of the bedroom, based on mutual respect and friendship that dominate but do not stifle physical passion. Ah, how many of us expected love to be like that, and have been disappointed! I don't think any real people can rise to the heights of nobility and intelligence that the Wimseys achieve.That aside, it's a nice little mystery involving, with rather heavy obviousness, a marriage that contrasts with the Wimseys'; two people engaged in a constant game of oneupmanship and unhappy misunderstanding. Normal marriage, in other words. In late Sayers style it brings in two French characters who possess a deep wisdom in all matters concerning l'amour, another idealization that devoted readers must forgive. I feel that Jill Paton Walsh's main contribution to this novel (which Sayers had sketched out and, I think, started to write but abandoned) might be the plot involving King Edward VIII, the rather worryingly pro-German monarch who abdicated to marry Mrs. Simpson. Sayers tended to ignore history in her novels--except, of course, for the after-effects of World War I, which had evidently made a deep impression on her.
Not a bad story, on the whole, and a decent fix for Wimsey fans who want more.
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LibraryThing member comixminx
Slightly clunkier than the echt DLS read (for instance you can see the seams a bit when Harriet and Peter discuss some technical things for Harriet's latest novel and these same bits of research are useful in the main story too). Still, a good fun re-read as ever.
LibraryThing member MissJessie
I read this book hesitantly, since it wasn't written by DS. I wish it ha been.
It was OK and I liked the story plots, but not unexpectedly, it just wasn't "real" to me.
It was pleasant to see how Harriet and Peter had gotten on in life and I wish that Ms. Sayers had written more in this series.
For
It was OK and I liked the story plots, but not unexpectedly, it just wasn't "real" to me.
It was pleasant to see how Harriet and Peter had gotten on in life and I wish that Ms. Sayers had written more in this series.
For
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what it is, a decent enough read. Show Less
LibraryThing member ritaer
last Lord Peter started by Sayers, completed by Paton. Interesting plot and seems to follow Sayer's style. Some doubt she would have been as frank about faults of Prince of Wales.
LibraryThing member alanteder
Seamless Reboot of Lord Peter Wimsey & Harriet Vane
Review of the Hodder & Stoughton paperback edition (2014) of the original Hodder & Stoughton hardcover (1936/1998).
Dorothy L. Sayers (1893-1957) is still listed as the primary author here, although her only contribution according to the publisher's
Sayers had mostly publicly abandoned her aristocrat detective Lord Peter Wimsey and crime-fiction writer wife & detection partner Harriet Vane after Busman's Honeymoon (1937). The rest of her writing life was devoted to scholarly efforts such as a translation of Dante's Divine Comedy.
Jill Paton Walsh carries on completely seamlessly from Sayers here and it is impossible to tell where the source fragment might be. The main pleasure is the warm banter between Harriet and Peter throughout as here they are settling into domestic life after their wedding and honeymoon. Perhaps the only telling difference is that Sayers' later books became very elaborate and often overly complex with OCD details about such things as train-spotting in Have His Carcase (1932) and bell-ringing in The Nine Tailors (1934). Thrones, Dominations is a much more conventional crime mystery and was a delight to read.
Review of the Hodder & Stoughton paperback edition (2014) of the original Hodder & Stoughton hardcover (1936/1998).
Dorothy L. Sayers (1893-1957) is still listed as the primary author here, although her only contribution according to the publisher's
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synopsis was a forgotten "fragment" from 1936 that was found in her agent's safe which was provided to Jill Paton Walsh for completion and for the start of a continuation series.Sayers had mostly publicly abandoned her aristocrat detective Lord Peter Wimsey and crime-fiction writer wife & detection partner Harriet Vane after Busman's Honeymoon (1937). The rest of her writing life was devoted to scholarly efforts such as a translation of Dante's Divine Comedy.
Jill Paton Walsh carries on completely seamlessly from Sayers here and it is impossible to tell where the source fragment might be. The main pleasure is the warm banter between Harriet and Peter throughout as here they are settling into domestic life after their wedding and honeymoon. Perhaps the only telling difference is that Sayers' later books became very elaborate and often overly complex with OCD details about such things as train-spotting in Have His Carcase (1932) and bell-ringing in The Nine Tailors (1934). Thrones, Dominations is a much more conventional crime mystery and was a delight to read.
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LibraryThing member SheilaDeeth
Whatever happened to Lord Peter Wimsey after he was married? How did Harriet deal with the duchess? Where did they live?
Answers to these and more questions reside in Thrones, Dominations, first of the “new” Lord Peter Wimsey/Harriet Vane novels, based on notes left by the original author. The
Society moves on, ideas change, and Harriet leads the way, very tidily. The dialog remains pitch-perfect, relationships just as expected and nicely humorous. The gap between rich and poor opens occasional doors. And a home in the country might be as dangerous as one in town.
A story of culture and relationships, told with well timed mystery; I’d love to read move.
Disclosure: I loved Dorothy Sayers’ books and wasn’t sure what to expect, but now I’m delighted.
Answers to these and more questions reside in Thrones, Dominations, first of the “new” Lord Peter Wimsey/Harriet Vane novels, based on notes left by the original author. The
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novel reads just like its predecessors. Lord Peter and Harriet Vane change only in that they’re growing together, as married couples will. Coping and changing are interesting, of course, bound by love and split by family and a changing world. So a dead body isn’t the only complication.Society moves on, ideas change, and Harriet leads the way, very tidily. The dialog remains pitch-perfect, relationships just as expected and nicely humorous. The gap between rich and poor opens occasional doors. And a home in the country might be as dangerous as one in town.
A story of culture and relationships, told with well timed mystery; I’d love to read move.
Disclosure: I loved Dorothy Sayers’ books and wasn’t sure what to expect, but now I’m delighted.
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Language
Original publication date
1998
Physical description
322 p.; 6.88 inches
ISBN
0312968302 / 9780312968304
Local notes
Lord Peter - Walsh, 1
DDC/MDS
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