Status
Available
Call number
Collection
Publication
Bantam (2002), Edition: 1St Edition, Hardcover, 672 pages
Description
It is the fourteenth century, and one of the most apocalyptic events in human history is set to occur-the coming of the Black Death. History teaches us that a third of Europe's population was destroyed. But what if the plague had killed 99 percent of the population instead? How would the world have changed? This is a look at the history that could have been-a history that stretches across centuries, a history that sees dynasties and nations rise and crumble, a history that spans horrible famine and magnificent innovation. These are the years of rice and salt.This is a universe where the first ship to reach the New World travels across the Pacific Ocean from China and colonization spreads from west to east. This is a universe where the Industrial Revolution is triggered by the world's greatest scientific minds-in India. This is a universe where Buddhism and Islam are the most influential and practiced religions, and Christianity is merely a historical footnote.Through the eyes of soldiers and kings, explorers and philosophers, slaves and scholars, Robinson renders an immensely rich tapestry. Rewriting history and probing the most profound questions as only he can, Robinson shines his extraordinary light on the place of religion, culture, power, and even love on such an Earth. From the steppes of Asia to the shores of the Western Hemisphere, from the age of Akbar to the present and beyond, here is the stunning story of the creation of a new world.… (more)
Media reviews
The Independent
If there is a weakness in Robinson's work, it is perhaps this; his characters are so intelligent that they never shut up and often have fascinating conversations for page after page about the engineering of fortifications or the reconciliation of Sufism and Confucianism or, most extendedly, the
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ways that history works. It is always good talk, in which everyone speaks in character. For Robinson, science fiction is not only a literature of ideas, but a literature whose characters have lots of them. Show Less
User reviews
LibraryThing member cdogzilla
First read this when originally published and have just finished rereading it; happy to find it's even better than I remembered. There is simply no writer, that I've read, who balances scale -- individual to society, a single lifetime to a millenium of history, observation of a single event to a
If Mr. Robinson will ultimately be remembered for his Mars trilogy, that's not such a bad thing; however, I think a case could be made for The Years of Rice and Salt being more important, for dealing with so many themes around history and human progress, so concisely, so beautifully.
This book is such an engaging plea to look at history, to look at our lives, as something to learn from, something to use to make the world better, more just, more compassionate ... it's a shame I don't know the right way to say 'everyone should read this' without sounding preachy. I guess the sentiment is preachy, and it'd be arrogant of me to think I know what's best for anyone; but, I can't help but think if people challenged themselves to imagine a better world, and then strove for it, we might take baby steps towards getting there.
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whole science, the simplest feeling to a religion or philosophy -- as Kim Stanley Robinson. If Mr. Robinson will ultimately be remembered for his Mars trilogy, that's not such a bad thing; however, I think a case could be made for The Years of Rice and Salt being more important, for dealing with so many themes around history and human progress, so concisely, so beautifully.
This book is such an engaging plea to look at history, to look at our lives, as something to learn from, something to use to make the world better, more just, more compassionate ... it's a shame I don't know the right way to say 'everyone should read this' without sounding preachy. I guess the sentiment is preachy, and it'd be arrogant of me to think I know what's best for anyone; but, I can't help but think if people challenged themselves to imagine a better world, and then strove for it, we might take baby steps towards getting there.
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LibraryThing member cleverusername2
This novel wasn't what I thought it would be, but that's a compliment in my book. I thought it would be a sort of medieval version of The Stand, with hoary images of Black Death ravaged cities all over Europe. Instead Robinson uses the big "What If" gimmick (what if the Black Death was 99% fatal
It is rare to read a novel with such insight into Asian and Middle Eastern thought and culture that is written by a Westerner. Robinson's' characters are well thought out and interesting, throughout their various reincarnations. Yes, a hand full of characters live many lives in this book. That is one of Robinson's weaknesses as an author; he loves his characters almost too much, and he is loth to part with them after their natural life span has run out. In his Mars trilogy books he created a genetic treatment to solve this problem. In "The Years of Rice and Salt" he merges Islamic, Hindu, and Tibetan Buddhist thought to create a narrative of lifetimes intertwining in the underworld. The effect is quite intriguing, but like his previous works I sometimes got tired of the characters. In "Salt" they at least change genders, nationalities, cultures, and outlook so there is much more character development than with his dusty Mars troupe.
While he shows great insight into Asian and Islamic cultures, I feel his grasp on the Native American characters was a bit more flimsy. They seemed a little too idealized. It is hard to imagine what would have become of the fate of the indigenous had Columbus never existed, perhaps as an American, Robinson has a hard time facing this particular Dharma.
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all over Europe, causing white Christian European civilization to become a mere historical footnote) as a jumping board to write a wholly different narrative. It is rare to read a novel with such insight into Asian and Middle Eastern thought and culture that is written by a Westerner. Robinson's' characters are well thought out and interesting, throughout their various reincarnations. Yes, a hand full of characters live many lives in this book. That is one of Robinson's weaknesses as an author; he loves his characters almost too much, and he is loth to part with them after their natural life span has run out. In his Mars trilogy books he created a genetic treatment to solve this problem. In "The Years of Rice and Salt" he merges Islamic, Hindu, and Tibetan Buddhist thought to create a narrative of lifetimes intertwining in the underworld. The effect is quite intriguing, but like his previous works I sometimes got tired of the characters. In "Salt" they at least change genders, nationalities, cultures, and outlook so there is much more character development than with his dusty Mars troupe.
While he shows great insight into Asian and Islamic cultures, I feel his grasp on the Native American characters was a bit more flimsy. They seemed a little too idealized. It is hard to imagine what would have become of the fate of the indigenous had Columbus never existed, perhaps as an American, Robinson has a hard time facing this particular Dharma.
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LibraryThing member paradoxosalpha
This novel covers about 650 years over the course of approximately as many pages, ending in 2002 when it was first published. It is set in an alternate history where the Black Death of the 14th century eliminated the prohibitive majority of the European population. It is a necklace of ten novellas
Although Robinson's style is often very cerebral, whether philosophical, scientific, or mystical, this book is still one that insists that the reader attend to bodies, and consider the libidinal cathexes that seem to drive both civilization and its discontents. His characters are often informed by deliberately-inflicted injuries: the castration of a young slave, a man's hand cut off in punishment, a woman's bound feet.
The title The Years of Rice and Salt appears in the book as a Chinese phrase denoting the stage of a woman's life between motherhood and widowhood. Metaphorically, Robinson seems to be suggesting that the entire modern period (whether our own or that of his conjectural parallel history) is such an interval for our species, and his characters often contemplate the arc of history and wonder about possibilities for human society. Typically, these thoughts arise in the context of the "Four Great Inequalities" theorized by his character Ibrahim ibn Hasam al-Lanzhou, one of which is the domination of women by men (406-411). Ibrahim appears in the section called "Widow Kang," which features this world's version of modern spiritualism, with a subversion of received gender codes just as in our own 19th century.
The "Widow Kang" episode is one that most highlights the fact that the ten stories are explicitly linked through the function of metempsychosis: Robinson re-purposes the Buddhist term jati (Skt, Pali "birth," but also "clan" or "sub-caste" in non-Buddhist Indian usage) to represent a persistent association of reincarnated individuals, who are also periodically reunited in the disincarnated bardo state. Although the novel presents reincarnation and the bardo as narrative facts, some of the book's last passages reflect on them more philosophically, observing: "Reincarnation is a story we tell; then in the end it's the story itself that is the reincarnation" (654). The epigram and first paragraph of the book imply that the two principal characters in the jati represented through all the stories are identical with the monkey Sun Wukong and monk Xuanzang of Chinese lore.
On the whole, this book is ambitious, profound, and often beautiful.
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carrying out a thought experiment regarding world history in the absence of Western modernity. Author Kim Stanley Robinson is known for investing his fiction with both the sort of grand scope present in this book and also a presentation of political concerns embracing socialism and environmentalism. These are also on hand in The Years of Rice and Salt. After working through analogies for the ages of discovery, rational enlightenment, and industrialization, the great wars of our 20th century are reflected in the Long War, sixty-six years of global military conflict between a Chinese empire and a worldwide Muslim alliance. The last two sections of the book take place in a post-war world with challenges very similar to our own. Although Robinson's style is often very cerebral, whether philosophical, scientific, or mystical, this book is still one that insists that the reader attend to bodies, and consider the libidinal cathexes that seem to drive both civilization and its discontents. His characters are often informed by deliberately-inflicted injuries: the castration of a young slave, a man's hand cut off in punishment, a woman's bound feet.
The title The Years of Rice and Salt appears in the book as a Chinese phrase denoting the stage of a woman's life between motherhood and widowhood. Metaphorically, Robinson seems to be suggesting that the entire modern period (whether our own or that of his conjectural parallel history) is such an interval for our species, and his characters often contemplate the arc of history and wonder about possibilities for human society. Typically, these thoughts arise in the context of the "Four Great Inequalities" theorized by his character Ibrahim ibn Hasam al-Lanzhou, one of which is the domination of women by men (406-411). Ibrahim appears in the section called "Widow Kang," which features this world's version of modern spiritualism, with a subversion of received gender codes just as in our own 19th century.
The "Widow Kang" episode is one that most highlights the fact that the ten stories are explicitly linked through the function of metempsychosis: Robinson re-purposes the Buddhist term jati (Skt, Pali "birth," but also "clan" or "sub-caste" in non-Buddhist Indian usage) to represent a persistent association of reincarnated individuals, who are also periodically reunited in the disincarnated bardo state. Although the novel presents reincarnation and the bardo as narrative facts, some of the book's last passages reflect on them more philosophically, observing: "Reincarnation is a story we tell; then in the end it's the story itself that is the reincarnation" (654). The epigram and first paragraph of the book imply that the two principal characters in the jati represented through all the stories are identical with the monkey Sun Wukong and monk Xuanzang of Chinese lore.
On the whole, this book is ambitious, profound, and often beautiful.
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LibraryThing member LizzieD
The Years of Rice and Salt is a departure for Kim Stanley Robinson. His near-future, hard science fiction writing has won disciples who believe that he has prophesied how it will be. This novel is a reflection of how it might have been. In it Robinson posits a Western Europe that lost 90% of its
At the heart of Robinson’s story is the concept of reincarnation. The first character we meet is identified as “Monkey,” who keeps returning to nurture, comfort, urge the other characters toward virtue. The characters, whatever their incarnation of the moment, are a jati of eight souls who are born again and again, die, find themselves in the bardo to discuss their past lives briefly, and then are born yet again. The main characters are those with B names, (Monkey); K’s, who are charismatic leaders, and whose contributions are crucial; and I’s, who are the theorists whose ideas the K’s promulgate. These and the others who are born with them change sexes, nationalities, and religions - all those things that we use to define ourselves - from incarnation to incarnation. For a person whose general interest lies in the author’s ability to create memorable characters and create a memorable sense of place, this shift from incarnation to incarnation becomes somewhat frustrating. I prefer a novel’s leisurely development to a short story’s, and these are somewhat like a selection of loosely linked short stories. The K character often complains on return to the bardo that they are not making progress at all.
However, this is a book that has to be long enough to involve the reader in a seemingly endless series of returns. On the one hand, the idea of a personality’s not disappearing forever is reassuring. On the other hand, an eternity of making the same mistakes begins to feel like the tortures of Hell. When the characters decide not to drink the drug of forgetfulness, I began to read with more enthusiasm. In the last incarnations, even though they involve The Long War, they finally seem to begin to “get it.” They realize, for instance, that societies that are good to women are societies that do not fail. They realize that there were no winners in the war, that the whole world has to work together, that people with plenty are inextricably bound to people that are starving. These are all lessons for our times that Mr. Robinson is able to convey without preaching.
(I wrote this review several years ago for a now-defunct website.)
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population in the fourteenth century plague. Rushing to fill the vacuum are the Chinese, the Islamic and the Indian cultures. The novel moves from the fourteenth century to the very early years of the twenty first. At the heart of Robinson’s story is the concept of reincarnation. The first character we meet is identified as “Monkey,” who keeps returning to nurture, comfort, urge the other characters toward virtue. The characters, whatever their incarnation of the moment, are a jati of eight souls who are born again and again, die, find themselves in the bardo to discuss their past lives briefly, and then are born yet again. The main characters are those with B names, (Monkey); K’s, who are charismatic leaders, and whose contributions are crucial; and I’s, who are the theorists whose ideas the K’s promulgate. These and the others who are born with them change sexes, nationalities, and religions - all those things that we use to define ourselves - from incarnation to incarnation. For a person whose general interest lies in the author’s ability to create memorable characters and create a memorable sense of place, this shift from incarnation to incarnation becomes somewhat frustrating. I prefer a novel’s leisurely development to a short story’s, and these are somewhat like a selection of loosely linked short stories. The K character often complains on return to the bardo that they are not making progress at all.
However, this is a book that has to be long enough to involve the reader in a seemingly endless series of returns. On the one hand, the idea of a personality’s not disappearing forever is reassuring. On the other hand, an eternity of making the same mistakes begins to feel like the tortures of Hell. When the characters decide not to drink the drug of forgetfulness, I began to read with more enthusiasm. In the last incarnations, even though they involve The Long War, they finally seem to begin to “get it.” They realize, for instance, that societies that are good to women are societies that do not fail. They realize that there were no winners in the war, that the whole world has to work together, that people with plenty are inextricably bound to people that are starving. These are all lessons for our times that Mr. Robinson is able to convey without preaching.
(I wrote this review several years ago for a now-defunct website.)
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LibraryThing member sturlington
One of the the most complex, multi-layered and absorbing novels I’ve read, which would definitely benefit from multiple rereadings.
Set in an alternate history where the Plague wiped out 99 percent of Europe’s population instead of just one-third – effectively decimating white, Christian
This novel is more than just an entertaining series of adventures, though. It has a lot to say about the human condition, religion, philosophy and history itself. How do cultures rise and fall? What small events can create or destroy empires? The section that tells the story of the earth’s world war – called the Long War and lasting more than 70 years – is one of the most harrowing depictions of war and its aftermath I have ever read. This is a weighty book, with a lot of big ideas to captivate and absorb the reader through many visits to this alternate – but very realistic – history of humankind.
Set in an alternate history where the Plague wiped out 99 percent of Europe’s population instead of just one-third – effectively decimating white, Christian
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culture – the novel follows 700 years of history as Arab, Asian and Native American cultures flourish and the religions of Buddhism and Islam spread throughout the world. One assumption the novel makes is that reincarnation is real, so the same set of characters (a jati, or group of souls linked by fate) come together in life after life and either witness or instigate the great events, scientific discoveries, political movements and philosophical writings of human history.This novel is more than just an entertaining series of adventures, though. It has a lot to say about the human condition, religion, philosophy and history itself. How do cultures rise and fall? What small events can create or destroy empires? The section that tells the story of the earth’s world war – called the Long War and lasting more than 70 years – is one of the most harrowing depictions of war and its aftermath I have ever read. This is a weighty book, with a lot of big ideas to captivate and absorb the reader through many visits to this alternate – but very realistic – history of humankind.
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LibraryThing member nwhyte
The book starts by kiling off the whole of Europe in the Black Death, leaving Islam and China to develop civilisation and the industrial revolution. This book is perhaps a bit of a reaction to the deterministic approach of Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel" and David S. Landes' "The Wealth and
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Poverty of Nations" which both argue that European superiority was more or less historically inevitable. My own view is that "natural" advantages need enlightened (or sometimes just lucky) rulers to exploit them - Rebecca West has some good observations on this in the Dubrovnik section of "Black Lamb and Grey Falcon". As a lapsed historian of science myself, I am particularly aware the rich tradition of Islamic knowledge, and that there was a time when Baghdad was the intellectual capital of the world. I also liked Robinson's Mars trilogy and the supplementary volume. Here, rather than the somewhat strained immortality thrust upon the Mars characters, he has reincarnation as a connecting thread between ten linked novellas covering 700 years. Oddly enough he ends up in much the same place as Robert Sawyer in "Hominids", with a rather utopian portrayal of an alternate timeline society contemporary with ours, but does it a hundred times better. Show Less
LibraryThing member gooutsideandplay
Boring! Couldn't finish. The premise was very interesting: all of Europe dies from the Black Death, this is what world history would have been like without Europe. Just couldn't get through the slow pace. Maybe I am too European?
LibraryThing member antao
One of the few things I really remember from high school is my old 9th Year History teacher delivering a great lesson about what the essence of understanding history is... for every event you basically need three elements- Motive, Capacity and Opportunity (rather like a murder I guess). Once you
It's hardly surprising that fiction writers as well as historians pick up on this endlessly fertile and interesting 'area' - it's quite an evocative thought to the reader to think that a random act of weather or whatever could lead to them never having existed / speaking another language / be part of a different country, etc., etc.
One book I'd add to the list of “worth-noticing-what-ifs” is “The Years of Rice and Salt” - great if somewhat drawn out 'epic' covering hundreds of years after the 'counterfactual point' which is all of Europe being wiped out by the Black Death and the vacuum this creates in world history (and who fills it)... I have much love for this novel, which posits European Civilisation as being utterly destroyed by the plague, bar a few ginger Scots firanji, and thus the world develops almost wholly on Asiatic terms, fascinatingly told through the “reincarnatative” conceit of the bardo.
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understand the basic what/when, then the how and why, you can fully appreciate the most interesting thing about history which is the “what if”. Of course, once you think about the what ifs, and how they could have so easily happened (and why they didn't), you're able to more fully appreciate why things happened as they did, and this gives you a better understanding of why 'now' is like it is, and how history is so far from being a linear deterministic chain of events, inevitably leading to the present. After World War 2, one of the most interesting areas of counterfactual history is the American War of Independence. It was chock full of 'what ifs' that so easily could have happened. One was Washington's lucky overnight escape from Brooklyn Heights early in the war when surrounded by the British- a fog came down out of nowhere and allowed them to escape by boat without the Royal Navy or the army realising. If he'd been captured/killed there the war could have ended there and then. Doesn't mean to say that the USA wouldn't have emerged independent sooner or later but that gets you into a different conversation again.It's hardly surprising that fiction writers as well as historians pick up on this endlessly fertile and interesting 'area' - it's quite an evocative thought to the reader to think that a random act of weather or whatever could lead to them never having existed / speaking another language / be part of a different country, etc., etc.
One book I'd add to the list of “worth-noticing-what-ifs” is “The Years of Rice and Salt” - great if somewhat drawn out 'epic' covering hundreds of years after the 'counterfactual point' which is all of Europe being wiped out by the Black Death and the vacuum this creates in world history (and who fills it)... I have much love for this novel, which posits European Civilisation as being utterly destroyed by the plague, bar a few ginger Scots firanji, and thus the world develops almost wholly on Asiatic terms, fascinatingly told through the “reincarnatative” conceit of the bardo.
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LibraryThing member pajarita
.....................................
What if the White European Christians had almost all died out in in the fourteenth century?
Kim Stanley Robinson has written an Alternative History that isn't steam punk, nor Nazis winning WW2.
This is a smart, well constructed, work of historical inquiry that
These seven centuries are seen in the context of a traditional Buddhist cosmology. This means that a handful of characters live, die, and are reborn through many lifetimes in different cultures, religions, genders, races, and even species. They are almost always unaware of their past lives or their souls' recurrent intentions. And, most times, the reader is also left unaware of these links. These individual karmic paths are not essential to the main intent of this book. They are, however, fascinatingly traceable for the attentive reader. And these paths very frequently and subtly reassemble groups, friendships, and love attachments through the centuries according to Buddhist karmic law. If you read to love characters, you will be well rewarded following the labyrinths of karmic paths that separate souls and reunite them in new cultures and contexts.
These seven centuries of Earth's history rewritten are presented to us in a manner that loves us as humans (and "souls") while walking us through our seemingly eternal karmic traps of wars, domination, disappointments, betrayals, and redemptions.
Of course, those historic scientific discoveries "we all know" are now reworked in new cultural contexts with different results. This is the beauty of Alternative Histories. But with this handful of sleepwalking "souls" reborn repeatedly in their own karmic cycles, this vast history of civilizations reconfigured takes on an unexpected intimacy.
Enjoy this one.
What if the White European Christians had almost all died out in in the fourteenth century?
Kim Stanley Robinson has written an Alternative History that isn't steam punk, nor Nazis winning WW2.
This is a smart, well constructed, work of historical inquiry that
Show More
spans seven centuries without the assumed Caucasian and "Christian" historical domination. There are a small cast of well constructed thoroughly "human" characters who live through those seven centuries in a very different Eurasia, Africa, and eventually the two Americas than the ones with which we, today, are familiar.These seven centuries are seen in the context of a traditional Buddhist cosmology. This means that a handful of characters live, die, and are reborn through many lifetimes in different cultures, religions, genders, races, and even species. They are almost always unaware of their past lives or their souls' recurrent intentions. And, most times, the reader is also left unaware of these links. These individual karmic paths are not essential to the main intent of this book. They are, however, fascinatingly traceable for the attentive reader. And these paths very frequently and subtly reassemble groups, friendships, and love attachments through the centuries according to Buddhist karmic law. If you read to love characters, you will be well rewarded following the labyrinths of karmic paths that separate souls and reunite them in new cultures and contexts.
These seven centuries of Earth's history rewritten are presented to us in a manner that loves us as humans (and "souls") while walking us through our seemingly eternal karmic traps of wars, domination, disappointments, betrayals, and redemptions.
Of course, those historic scientific discoveries "we all know" are now reworked in new cultural contexts with different results. This is the beauty of Alternative Histories. But with this handful of sleepwalking "souls" reborn repeatedly in their own karmic cycles, this vast history of civilizations reconfigured takes on an unexpected intimacy.
Enjoy this one.
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LibraryThing member crazybatcow
I guess it's well written. I couldn't get into it. The place names and character names and references were all 'non-Western' so were very difficult to keep track of. The story is 'spiritual' but not in the Judeo-Christian manner so even that was beyond familiarity.
That... and the story follows a
It's just too... foreign for me.
That... and the story follows a
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series of spirits, or perhaps, spirits through a series of 'lifetimes'... so you get a short glimpse at an individual's life, then he dies (or she from time to time) and, I guess, is the spirit in a new form in the next chapter of the book. But, really, I didn't care about any of them, or any of the environments or any of the "history"...It's just too... foreign for me.
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LibraryThing member catecolem
The Years of Rice and Salt is one of my favorite books of all time. Interestingly, I found my way to it by reading Jameson's Archeologies of the Future: The Desire Called Utopia and Other Science Fictions in a "course" for my dissertation prospectus. I was initially doubtful, for I used to pride
The Years of Rice and Salt is gloriously long and oh-so wonderful!
Interestingly, I was getting into it at the same time that I was really delving into formal Buddhism, and the book is so rewarding in that sense. Regardless of one's Buddhist strand, (or unaffiliation with Buddhism altogether) the idea of the "bardo" - a space beyond this plane of existence where we meet with people in our band of world wanderers (a group or team of spirits that move through existence together)is a beautiful idea. Its also a great way to tie characters together through their various manifestations and do some serious development beyond our unnecessarily limited Western concepts of traditional "personality" and "identity."
Case in point: You know when you meet someone and you are SURE you've known them before...the way that they do the things they do, the way they talk, a certain look in the eyes...fantastic. They respond to you in kind. Creepy, right? Nope! At least in this book, it all goes down in the bardo.
Sometimes, even long before reading this book, I felt that my mother, significant other, and some other random friends and acquaintances from across the continent (and around the world) are people with whom I am somehow connected, and I doubt it's the drugs. This book uses this idea (masterfully and beautifully) to connect characters together across eras. You may not always be a man, you could also be a woman, a eunuch, a tiger, etc,.
Awesome book. It was a fabulous introduction to the one living writer I would do almost anything to meet - I've given up on you Pynchon, and Salinger...adieu - and on whose work I'm about to start writing an article (Three Californias trilogy). Robinson rocks my world!
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myself on "not being a science fiction fan," mainly to criticize my mother's choices of reading during my lengthy (and infamous) career as a bratty know-nothing literary snob and pawn of twentieth century literary canon-builders. But this book sounded so cool! A world in which Europe was all but wiped out by the black plague and the survivors enslaved by the Africans and Chinese?!The Years of Rice and Salt is gloriously long and oh-so wonderful!
Interestingly, I was getting into it at the same time that I was really delving into formal Buddhism, and the book is so rewarding in that sense. Regardless of one's Buddhist strand, (or unaffiliation with Buddhism altogether) the idea of the "bardo" - a space beyond this plane of existence where we meet with people in our band of world wanderers (a group or team of spirits that move through existence together)is a beautiful idea. Its also a great way to tie characters together through their various manifestations and do some serious development beyond our unnecessarily limited Western concepts of traditional "personality" and "identity."
Case in point: You know when you meet someone and you are SURE you've known them before...the way that they do the things they do, the way they talk, a certain look in the eyes...fantastic. They respond to you in kind. Creepy, right? Nope! At least in this book, it all goes down in the bardo.
Sometimes, even long before reading this book, I felt that my mother, significant other, and some other random friends and acquaintances from across the continent (and around the world) are people with whom I am somehow connected, and I doubt it's the drugs. This book uses this idea (masterfully and beautifully) to connect characters together across eras. You may not always be a man, you could also be a woman, a eunuch, a tiger, etc,.
Awesome book. It was a fabulous introduction to the one living writer I would do almost anything to meet - I've given up on you Pynchon, and Salinger...adieu - and on whose work I'm about to start writing an article (Three Californias trilogy). Robinson rocks my world!
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LibraryThing member sloopjonb
I am a sucker for alternative history, and this is alternative history on the grand scale, from the initial premise that the Black Death killed *everybody* in Europe, not just a lot of us, right through to the 'present day'. In this new world the Chinese and Arab Muslim cultures dominate and vie
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for world power, and through the rise and falls of these two empires travel a band of repeatedly (but unknowingly) re-incarnated characters. This is a marvellous plot device, allowing the author to tell the story of 800 years of history through his characters without having to introduce a new lot every generation. It also allows him to use the central characters' slowly growing awareness of their predicament as a metaphor for the growth of the human mind and the journey toward enlightenment here on earth (rather than in Nirvana). Some readers found the interludes in between the history, where our band spend time between incarnations in the bardo, a sort of Buddhist Limbo, annoying, but despite having very little tolerance for mysticism of any sort I didn't. As a further delight, each chapter is written in a style appropriate to the subject matter, beginning with a pastiche of the Chinese Buddhist classic 'Journey to the West'. Literate, intelligent, educational, moving, compelling: this book is a challenge for the reader; a challenge well worth taking. Show Less
LibraryThing member eggdropsoap
A book about our place in the world and the eternal question of how to live well, disguised as a novel. It's a long read, best savoured slowly over a stretch of time. It's too easy to become impatient and rush through to the "good bits" of action and excitement, and miss the thought-provoking
It is less a fantasy or science fiction work than a tribute to our potential as a species, seen through an Eastern lens that is not often considered in Robinson's English-speaking target audience.
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substance.It is less a fantasy or science fiction work than a tribute to our potential as a species, seen through an Eastern lens that is not often considered in Robinson's English-speaking target audience.
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LibraryThing member kelsoli
This is going off my memory of a book I read at least 4 years ago, but something about this book makes it stand out in my mind and makes me suggest it to friends if they're looking for an intelligent read.
The whole idea of reincarnation isn't one I subscribe to, so it doesn't exactly make sense
Yet Kim Stanley Robinson - and I'll be so bold as to refer to the author as KSR from now on for brevity's sake - is so non-judgemental and fair-minded, that I couldn't take offense. He doesn't seem to hate the idea of God, as most religious oponents do, just that perhaps human failings made the Church into a tool of error and selfishness, instead of the Church improving people and teaching them about God.
This band of souls didn't exactly appeal to me - most of the characters were a bit annoying (to me) in how dense or cruel or self-centred they were. But perhaps this was the point. I loved that at one point, a soul lived as a tiger (am I remembering correctly?), which many readers would consider to be a "better" creature than man, yet KSR never implies or says that just because humans sin, that we are unworthy and lower than animals.
I find KSR to be a bit wordy and dry, especially when dealing with politics (the Mars trilogy comes to mind here), but I love how he examines human motivation. And he's so bang-on with his knowledge of history and science, and the speculative possibilites involving these. This book was a more enjoyable read for me, because it wasn't so dry (due to politics) than his earlier books.
The plot was intriguing, too. It was almost like a series of steps or plateaus rather than a clear path from point A to point B. Each "life" was a discreet story unto itself, yet it tied into the whole, which was the evolution of this group of linked souls and the examination of how the world might be a completely different place if one event had had different results. This idea reminds me of Orson Scott Card's Pastwatch novel, but KSR tackles the concept in a completely different way.
Not my top favourite book of all time, but definitely up there, and definitely my favourite of KSR's novels. A must-read for anyone, no matter their preference of style or genre.
The whole idea of reincarnation isn't one I subscribe to, so it doesn't exactly make sense
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that I think this was the perfect vehicle to carry forward Robinson's story, but there you have it! And the starting point, the idea "what if Christianity HADN'T been the dominant force shaping the Western world", is vaguely offense because it implies that everything that's wrong with the world (but not also everything that's right) is due to organized, monotheistic religion.Yet Kim Stanley Robinson - and I'll be so bold as to refer to the author as KSR from now on for brevity's sake - is so non-judgemental and fair-minded, that I couldn't take offense. He doesn't seem to hate the idea of God, as most religious oponents do, just that perhaps human failings made the Church into a tool of error and selfishness, instead of the Church improving people and teaching them about God.
This band of souls didn't exactly appeal to me - most of the characters were a bit annoying (to me) in how dense or cruel or self-centred they were. But perhaps this was the point. I loved that at one point, a soul lived as a tiger (am I remembering correctly?), which many readers would consider to be a "better" creature than man, yet KSR never implies or says that just because humans sin, that we are unworthy and lower than animals.
I find KSR to be a bit wordy and dry, especially when dealing with politics (the Mars trilogy comes to mind here), but I love how he examines human motivation. And he's so bang-on with his knowledge of history and science, and the speculative possibilites involving these. This book was a more enjoyable read for me, because it wasn't so dry (due to politics) than his earlier books.
The plot was intriguing, too. It was almost like a series of steps or plateaus rather than a clear path from point A to point B. Each "life" was a discreet story unto itself, yet it tied into the whole, which was the evolution of this group of linked souls and the examination of how the world might be a completely different place if one event had had different results. This idea reminds me of Orson Scott Card's Pastwatch novel, but KSR tackles the concept in a completely different way.
Not my top favourite book of all time, but definitely up there, and definitely my favourite of KSR's novels. A must-read for anyone, no matter their preference of style or genre.
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LibraryThing member xiaomarlo
If Kim Stanley Robinson had an editor that would whittle his books down to the essentials, he'd be perfect. As it is, he tends to ramble too much. Still, I love the idea behind this book. He writes an alternate history where the Black Plague killed off Europe, so Asia becomes the dominant world
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power. He explores cultures and history in great depth. Then he throws in reincarnation and spirituality, and shows the journey of a group of souls across time. A really unique book. Show Less
LibraryThing member xnfec
Well written and very absorbing. The author creates a convincing history of the world as it might have been without Europeans. The characters are always engaging and the pages just fly by. I was sad to finish it but will definitely re-read it. One to own
LibraryThing member DabOfDarkness
In the 14th century, the plague hit Europe. But instead of killing a third of the population, it kills 99%. Islam and Buddhism rise, along with China and the Ottoman Empire. The New World is settled west to east and India becomes the country to spark the Industrial Revolution. This tale that spans
I dived into this book very much looking forward to a grand, sweeping alternate history. However, this book wasn’t told the way I thought it would be. Using reincarnation to keep some semblance of the same main characters throughout the tale, the book still reads more like a sequential collection of short stories. The alternate history component is really subtle for the first half of the book. If you had not read the description of the book and just set into it, you would think that it was a plain historical fiction told from the viewpoints of the Muslim empire, China, and India. A few things indicate what is going on in the first half (such as the Chinese fleet discovering the western coast of the Americas). Yet much of the focus is about what is going on internally for these various empires.
The second half really makes it apparent that this is an alternate history but it is not until the end that the plague of the 14th century is discussed in what would be modern scientific archaeological circles. I found the second half of the book more interesting as the various governments and empires have spread and now have to deal with one another. I especially liked that some Native American groups managed to hold their own in this alternate history, becoming sovereign governments the other nations had to deal with.
Much of the book delves into various religions and philosophies. This is done through the main characters of each reincarnation. While it is done well, it is also done thoroughly and many ideas are repeated throughout the book. This is my only criticism of the book: sometimes this focus on religion and philosophy would get repetitive and I would tune out. While I understand that each reincarnated character believes they are experiencing these thoughts and moments of celestial clarity for the first time, after the 4th or 5th character went through this experience, I was worn out. There are very long stretches of contemplation and reflection and not much action in the first half of the book. The second half has a much better balance.
The ladies were no shrinking violets in this book. Roughly half the book is told through the eyes of female characters. They are religious leaders, philosophers, poets, historians, scientists, etc. Yet they still have to struggle against patriarchy, except in one Native American nation. As a side note, it was nice to see a few lesbians represented in the last quarter of the book.
It was very interesting to see how history could have been affected by so many Caucasians and Christians dying out in the 14th century. Indeed, the red-headed Caucasian becomes a rare being indeed and highly prized among some harem owners. While little pockets of Christianity continue on, it is a small cult-like religion. This aspect of the book was fascinating. While this was not the book I expected when I picked it up, I am very glad I gave it a listen. Plenty of food for thought lies within this book.
I received this audiobook at no cost from the publisher via Audiobook Jukebox in exchange for an honest review.
The Narration: Bronson Pinchot gave a decent performance. His character voices were all distinct and he had believable female character voices. My one little quibble is that he sometimes chose to do an accent and sometimes not. So sometimes we would have characters with foreign accents and then in the next reincarnation story none of the characters would have accents. Sometimes I was listening to an excellent performance and sometimes it was just OK.
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centuries is told through a series of reincarnations, through religious and philosophical discussions, and through scientific discoveries.I dived into this book very much looking forward to a grand, sweeping alternate history. However, this book wasn’t told the way I thought it would be. Using reincarnation to keep some semblance of the same main characters throughout the tale, the book still reads more like a sequential collection of short stories. The alternate history component is really subtle for the first half of the book. If you had not read the description of the book and just set into it, you would think that it was a plain historical fiction told from the viewpoints of the Muslim empire, China, and India. A few things indicate what is going on in the first half (such as the Chinese fleet discovering the western coast of the Americas). Yet much of the focus is about what is going on internally for these various empires.
The second half really makes it apparent that this is an alternate history but it is not until the end that the plague of the 14th century is discussed in what would be modern scientific archaeological circles. I found the second half of the book more interesting as the various governments and empires have spread and now have to deal with one another. I especially liked that some Native American groups managed to hold their own in this alternate history, becoming sovereign governments the other nations had to deal with.
Much of the book delves into various religions and philosophies. This is done through the main characters of each reincarnation. While it is done well, it is also done thoroughly and many ideas are repeated throughout the book. This is my only criticism of the book: sometimes this focus on religion and philosophy would get repetitive and I would tune out. While I understand that each reincarnated character believes they are experiencing these thoughts and moments of celestial clarity for the first time, after the 4th or 5th character went through this experience, I was worn out. There are very long stretches of contemplation and reflection and not much action in the first half of the book. The second half has a much better balance.
The ladies were no shrinking violets in this book. Roughly half the book is told through the eyes of female characters. They are religious leaders, philosophers, poets, historians, scientists, etc. Yet they still have to struggle against patriarchy, except in one Native American nation. As a side note, it was nice to see a few lesbians represented in the last quarter of the book.
It was very interesting to see how history could have been affected by so many Caucasians and Christians dying out in the 14th century. Indeed, the red-headed Caucasian becomes a rare being indeed and highly prized among some harem owners. While little pockets of Christianity continue on, it is a small cult-like religion. This aspect of the book was fascinating. While this was not the book I expected when I picked it up, I am very glad I gave it a listen. Plenty of food for thought lies within this book.
I received this audiobook at no cost from the publisher via Audiobook Jukebox in exchange for an honest review.
The Narration: Bronson Pinchot gave a decent performance. His character voices were all distinct and he had believable female character voices. My one little quibble is that he sometimes chose to do an accent and sometimes not. So sometimes we would have characters with foreign accents and then in the next reincarnation story none of the characters would have accents. Sometimes I was listening to an excellent performance and sometimes it was just OK.
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LibraryThing member TheDivineOomba
I read this a few years, and it took me two attempts.
I found the book hard to get into, initially. It was a bit wordy, and I found the plot a bit difficult to follow, but the second time I read it, I persevered, and found it quite rewarding.
The basic premise is that in medieval times, the black
I found the book hard to get into, initially. It was a bit wordy, and I found the plot a bit difficult to follow, but the second time I read it, I persevered, and found it quite rewarding.
The basic premise is that in medieval times, the black
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plaque took 99 out 100 people, rather than 1 out of 10, leaving Asia and the Middle East mostly Affected. The story follows two souls, as they get reincarnated into different bodies as time progresses, and alternates between a Chinese Dominated Asia, and Muslim Dominated Europe. Show Less
LibraryThing member psybre
Recommended for those interested in: eastern religions, Chinese, Indian and Middle Eastern history, Islam, Buddhism AND enjoy long reads.
Compare to "Ghostwritten" by David Mitchell to which I gave 4 1/2 stars:: The Years of Rice and Salt is longer, more languid. I enjoyed the stories about
For my own enjoyment, I rate this book 2.8.
Compare to "Ghostwritten" by David Mitchell to which I gave 4 1/2 stars:: The Years of Rice and Salt is longer, more languid. I enjoyed the stories about
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technological development, the Buddhism and Islam sophistry, less so. The transmigration-of-souls angle of the book is also entertaining and helps pacing when that jati is in the bardo, but I agree with other reviewers that the lack of continuity and placement of these souls to new bodies inhibits flow.For my own enjoyment, I rate this book 2.8.
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LibraryThing member fyoder
Round and round and round we go, from this life to another through the bardo. I suspect those who believe in reincarnation may enjoy this book more than those who don't, for whom the whole reincarnation thing is just a literary device to allow the author to follow an alternate history down through
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the centuries using the same characters. Some of my favorite bits were in the bardo with regard to the characters' experience of "Oh no! Not again!". Funny on a simply comic level, but also inviting deeper reflection on the question of just what are the mistakes the characters make in their lives again and again that keep them so stubbornly stuck in the eternal cycle of birth and death. Ultimately they represent us, and their mistakes are ours. Show Less
LibraryThing member Pferdina
I really enjoyed this novel of an alternate history. All the Europeans are killed by the Plague (or some other disease) leaving the world to the Chinese and Muslims. How is it changed? How is it the same? The book contains about ten episodes, each one concerning a different set of characters at a
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different place along the timeline. All but the final episode were fascinating to me. The last chapter had too much speculation and philosophy and not enough plot. Show Less
LibraryThing member wid_get
This is a book that will take your breathe away. What if instead of the Plague killing 33% of the population in the 14th century, 99% are killed? The entirety of Europe, and all of Christianity, is decimated, leaving Buddhism and Islam as the most influential of the practiced religions.
I have to
The end was a disappointment to me at first, yet, the more I have time to dwell on it, the more appropriate it is.
I have to
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say I loved this book, every step of the way Robinson created a believable, possible history with the same family of souls telling their collective story again and again, each time with a little more progress on their journey. The end was a disappointment to me at first, yet, the more I have time to dwell on it, the more appropriate it is.
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LibraryThing member deepsettpress
A lot of reviewers call books "lyrical" but this one deserves that word. It's probably Robinson's best book. Made me cry.
LibraryThing member kay0211
When I had the time to read this book I really enjoyed it. I originally started to read it because I like the idea of an alternate history with Buddhist civilization. In the beginning of the book the use of reincarnation with the characters really grabbed my attention. However by the middle of the
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book the story line bogged down and the momentum of the character reincarnation slowed down. I do like this book enough to hang on to it and read it again when I have larger blocks of time to devote to it. Show Less
LibraryThing member collinmaessen
Quite intriguing concept for an alternate history. The black plague wipes out Europe (except for a handful of survivors) and changes history beyond recognition.
However I found the story tedious to read. It was hard to connect with the characters in the story and the main characters weren't always
Although it did have it moments. The moments the entire Jati is in the Bardo can be very hilarious or riveting, depending on the mood the characters have due their death and experiences. Also the first part of the book contains the best 'stories' of the characters. Later on in the book the stories tend to become more philosophical
The global politics and the way technology develops during the centuries in the book is believable. And most certainly the best part in the book.
However I found the story tedious to read. It was hard to connect with the characters in the story and the main characters weren't always
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interesting to read about. Also the reincarnation of the different main characters made it hard to keep track of who's who (which sometimes only becomes 100% clear when they die).Although it did have it moments. The moments the entire Jati is in the Bardo can be very hilarious or riveting, depending on the mood the characters have due their death and experiences. Also the first part of the book contains the best 'stories' of the characters. Later on in the book the stories tend to become more philosophical
The global politics and the way technology develops during the centuries in the book is believable. And most certainly the best part in the book.
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Awards
Hugo Award (Nominee — Novel — 2003)
Locus Award (Finalist — Science Fiction Novel — 2003)
SF Site Reader's Choice (2002)
SF Site Editor's Choice (2002)
Arthur C. Clarke Award (Shortlist — 2003)
British Science Fiction Association Award (Shortlist — Novel — 2002)
The Guardian 1000 Novels Everyone Must Read (Science Fiction and Fantasy)
Language
Original publication date
2002
Physical description
672 p.; 8.6 inches
ISBN
0553109200 / 9780553109207